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Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st

 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:11 pm 
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RichardL wrote:
I think the ignore cover is for instance a Stormsword has heavy flamers, these have both a shooting IC attack, as well as small arms IC as well. Skorcha's however have a shooting IC attack, but no mention of anything for small arms - ergo there's the question mark over whether a Skorcha would therefore IC in firefight given it doesn't explicitly say so.


Gotcha, and yes you are correct Richard. As it's the AP weapon that's ignore cover on the Skorcha, with no small arms entry, it won't get IC in FF.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:09 am 
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Ah one more rules question to get out there, war engines, when in btb with an enemy formation, for the purposes of locking troops in transports etc, do they count as a single model or do they count as DC number of models? I'm easy either way but I think it would be smart to decide this upfront in the case of any rules disputes down the line (alternatively is this a 5-min warmup question?)

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:21 am 
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MephistonAG wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:

2 - This is something to agree in the 5 min warm up. If you can't agree my Ref answer will be back of base as the rules say within.


It´s answered in the epicUK rules pack. See under within and fully within.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:34 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Ah one more rules question to get out there, war engines, when in btb with an enemy formation, for the purposes of locking troops in transports etc, do they count as a single model or do they count as DC number of models? I'm easy either way but I think it would be smart to decide this upfront in the case of any rules disputes down the line (alternatively is this a 5-min warmup question?)

This has always been the DC of the WE. So, should a Marine Landing Craft attempt to assault an IG Warlord by landing in contact with the Warlord, the transported troops would find themselves 'locked in' because the Warlord counts as having 8xDC against the 4xDC of the LC.

Furthermore, I believe this is still true even if the Walord has lost some DC earlier in the game, though that definitely needs to be clarified.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:38 pm 
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I don't think war engines 'lose' DC during the game due to wounds - i've certainly never seen it played like that before at least!


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Yup - you are right Richard. Just re-checked the start of section 3, and found the following:-
Quote:
That said, the main difference between a war engine and a normal vehicle is that the war engine has a damage capacity (abbreviated DC) that shows how many ‘kills’ the war engine can absorb before it is destroyed. For example, a Warlord Titan has a DC of 8, and it therefore takes eight ‘kills’ to destroy it. For most rules purposes, a war engine counts as being ‘worth’ a number of units equal to its starting damage capacity, so a war engine’s starting damage capacity is also used to work out how many dice it rolls in an assault, how easy it is to pin and so on. This and all of the other modifications to the core game rules are described in detail as follows.
So for clarity using the above example, the LC contents would be 'locked in' even if the Warlord had only 1DC left.

(BTW, this answer is also in the FAQ:- the WE counts as the starting DC)


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:46 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
Ah one more rules question to get out there, war engines, when in btb with an enemy formation, for the purposes of locking troops in transports etc, do they count as a single model or do they count as DC number of models? I'm easy either way but I think it would be smart to decide this upfront in the case of any rules disputes down the line (alternatively is this a 5-min warmup question?)

This has always been the DC of the WE. So, should a Marine Landing Craft attempt to assault an IG Warlord by landing in contact with the Warlord, the transported troops would find themselves 'locked in' because the Warlord counts as having 8xDC against the 4xDC of the LC.

Furthermore, I believe this is still true even if the Walord has lost some DC earlier in the game, though that definitely needs to be clarified.


Actually I'm not sure it has "always" been the DC of the WE....

If we treat war engines as a number of units equal to starting DC, thenthat means then that a war engine should roll dice equal to it's DC when negotiating dangerous terrain then? or in the case of teleporting rolling for blast markers?

also as a single unit can have a maximum of two units in base contact, does that mean a warlord titan can't BTB anything smaller than DC4?

if we're playing it that way then a literal reading of the rules means the above points also stand, which in the case of the second, is pretty damn ridiculous...

Also Ginger while I respect your knowledge of the rules, I'd like an official ruling from the EUK referee please

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:28 pm 
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Trophies, dice, prizes have all arrived. Restaurants booked (Italian on the Friday, Indian on the Saturday).

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:39 pm 
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Kuss, I do think you're being a bit more 'picky' than normal but here you go.

WE count their starting DC when checking for locking units in an enemy transport (WE or not).

A WE of more than 3DC (and, from memory, that's every single one!) can assault a single unit, not withstanding my ruling above, and can carry on and barge till it has twice it's dc in contact or moved it's max move.

WE's taking teleport or dangerous terrain test role one dice, regardless of their starting DC. Damage can cause crits as normal.

I'd also recommend all players take the time to review the Epic-UK Tournament rules PDF - http://epic-uk.co.uk/rules/EpicUKRulesPack.pdf

All the above are how I've played every tournament game I've played since 2006, unless my memory is off... which it could be!

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Interestingly enough there are a few 2DC war machines out there, such as the Necron Pylon and the Macharius Tank - not that the Pylon will be doing much assaulting ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:00 pm 
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RichardL wrote:
Interestingly enough there are a few 2DC war machines out there, such as the Necron Pylon and the Macharius Tank - not that the Pylon will be doing much assaulting ;)



Let's not forget the rarely-seen Marine Thunderhawk too...!


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:05 pm 
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Normally in my games with Steve, Dave and Mike we play that a WE only counts as one model for the purposes of locking troops in, however it's your call and fine by me... I just felt it merited a clarification as it's come up multiple times in recent games whether a thawk and termies can lock all the troops in a gorgon for example....

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:14 pm 
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Reedar wrote:
RichardL wrote:
Interestingly enough there are a few 2DC war machines out there, such as the Necron Pylon and the Macharius Tank - not that the Pylon will be doing much assaulting ;)



Let's not forget the rarely-seen Marine Thunderhawk too...!


Indeed, and the Vampire Raider - you don't see many of those either ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Smart arses! Though you don't see those tripping through the woods a la fumbles the warlock titan do you? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Epic European Championship 2015 Birmingham 30th-31st
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:15 pm 
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MephistonAG wrote:
Smart arses! Though you don't see those tripping through the woods a la fumbles the warlock titan do you? :P



Sorry Meph, couldn't resist!


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