I'm not part of the NetERC, and I was just trying to summarize the perception.  I was overstating the facts to give you the perception, just as you understated the facts to give your perception.  I actually think the conversation has NOT gone in circles, its just dragged because of the nature of what you originally posted.

You posted information.  Some of it was taken it the wrong way.  Some of it was taken the correct way and disagreed with.  Steve54 clarified some things.  Hena wanted some additional info on the Dark Eldar decision.  The question wasn't understood.  And now the discussion continues.

This IS how discussion works.  We don't mind meld, we're not part of a collective, and we are dealing with a medium that is limited (you've all heard 90% of all communication is non-verbal yet we're left only with words to discuss things).  Add emotion into all of it and you end up with 8 pages of GRRRRRRR!.

Matt,

having MOD status, maybe you can lock your thread, discuss off the boards with the NetERC, then give everyone a cooling off period?  Just a suggestion.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Ok, I cannot hold off any further. I think this whole "storm in a teacup" has blown up because of a series of misimpressions and misinterpretations.

As a regular UK tournament attendee, I know Matt takes great care to try to provide a consistent and fair UK tournament environment. To that end he has always refused to take anything onther than the 'official' lists, though there are a few additional note to these in his entry form. He is now proposing to test some other marine chapters in a 'tournament' setting (but has not actually specified any other constraints as far as I know).

Actually, I would hope that the community would welcome the feedback that this should give because it will be done in an environment that is as consistent as possible and thus less likely to skew any results.

However, it seems that the main concern being expressed here is that this will be done via some form of closed 'EPIC-UK' list development exercise that will be divergent in some way from those being developed here. I do not believe this will be true (though I think there are some people with divergent views on what the lists should contain).

Actually, this brings the whole development process into sharp relief, and the role of tournaments within this framework. As I see it, a list goes through the following cycle:-
1) initial list proposed
2) testing
3) approval
4) corrections and updates proposed (back to #2)

What is missing here is just how the approval process is performed, and more importantly for this discussion, what guidelines should be given to tournament organisers (like Hena, Matt or myself).

I do think that the global community has a right (or even a duty) to question why a particular list is not being selected for a tournament, though if it is consistently rejected, that suggests there is something fundementally wrong with the list.

We all know that 'Official' lists are in different states. While the original Marine, Ork and IG lists are pretty good, others are less balanced (Siegies and IMHO Chaos). Fine, so we are in the process of proposing changes which will need testing etc.

What (IMHO) needs to happen is that the results of tournaments need to be analysed, and fed into the development process, which is what I hope will indeed still be the case with the UK tournaments and the EPIC-UK team.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

The EUK tournament lists should not concern anyone who isn't going to go to a EUK organised tournament.
I don't think anyone outside this group should be concerned.
Nobody should feel that EUK rules replace anything from GW or NetERC.
Just think of it almost as a private club.

Why do posters keep complaining about "new rules at EUK" there are no new rules.

Regards to the NetEA lists and tourney mods.These have never been used at a UK event,the official lists and errata is the norm at them.This has always been due to the fact a lot of the regular players and almost all of any newcomers don't come here (taccomms) at all and some of those who have seen the work here regard it as fan based work despite what us regulars tell them.

Using NetEA lists and mods at a tournament would be OK if we could guarantee all those who come have had time to work out why changes have been made and learn any differences in the rules/lists .There was 1 player at last years GW GT that hadn't even seen the official errata despite links to them in the rules pack.

Despite what most think when you've paid out around 200 to 300 pounds(normally $400-$500 but at todays exchange rate probably more like $2.75) for a weekend gaming to be told you'll be using and facing fan produced lists and rules isn't the best way to encourage players to come back.

As I see it,the work to be done by the EUK is going to go some way towards getting lists (like Eldar variants/Tau/Tyranids and Dark Eldar etc. and NetEA amendments) introduced to the tournament scene here.

But that's exactly what Epic UK is doing, it's telling people they'll be using fan produced rules, but instead of the internationally accepted, well playtested and collaboratively designed ones, they'll be using fan rules made in secret that noone else is allowed to see.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

What fan produced lists/Rules are going to be used at the tournament ?

The lists that have been announced are to be shown to the players that turn up for "TESTING" there are no lists that have been introduced to be "USED" at the next tournament.

With feed back,mainly from tournament players but not exclusively just by them hopefully others will get to test the lists,there will then be a decision by all the UK tournament players whether any of the new lists will be added into the existing ones allowed at UK tournaments.

There has been some confusion.  I REALLY recommend locking the thread and starting anew.  The announcement of something positive has obviously been tainted by a series of misunderstandings and some high emotions.  It would give Matt a chance to re-state what is happening and what is not.  I think then this can move forward positively.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Perhaps lock this thread and open a thread only Epic UK tournament goers can access...