I think this sums up my problem with the proposed change.
I really like the way that the barrage template TK mechanic works and allows the Cobra to threaten big titans, but typically *not* to destroy them in one go; the TK damage is offset by the reduced chances of actually hitting the target in the first place. And to be properly effective you need to use two or preferably three Cobras in concert, as a singleton is too easily countered.

Why was increasing the Template to BP3 rejected (with TK D3+1), this was a very popular choice in the discussion on the Cobra earlier this year?

Some of the titans weapons seem a lot better than others in the list.

Is the Plasma Destructor really meant to be only MW3+ rather than MW2+ like all other titan plasma weapons? This sounds like a type to me. It seems wrong that the Plasma Cannon kills more than the Plasma Destructor (it previous editions of Epic the Destructor was a fair bit more killy than the Cannon) and I don't see anyone choosing to take the Destructor at the moment.

The Quake Cannon in the Net-EA list is perhaps a bit too good, but the one here seems to have gone too far the other way. 120cm 3BP MW is powerful but not with slow firing. I'd consider taking it at 4BP Slow Firing but never bother at the moment.

The other barrage weapons in the list look great, though the Carapace Landing Pad seems pointless, it doesn't seem worth taking it and missing out on a powerful weapon just to make a single barrage weapon indirect fire

Warhound with twin Plasma Blastgun would make an excellent blitzguard (sit the blitz right in one corner of the table-edge and the titan on top of it angled so that teleporters couldn't appear behind it out of arc). Put it on overwatch first thing and 6 x MW2+ would put off teleporting terminators.


This argument isn't really fitting. Melta weapons in 40k are handheld by guardsmen with their bare hands with zero negative effect. Plasma weapons are the unstable ones that can pump out excess heat and kill their user, melta-weapons are safe.

I agree with E&C that the Melta Cannon really should be made more powerful in FF than shooting when you update the list. This is how ALL melta based weapons work in 40k, being uniquely much more powerful at penetrating vehicle armour at up to half range. I'd rather it's bonus FF attack be TK(D3), even if it was felt it needed to reduce the power of it's ranged attack slightly to balance.

Question on the AMTL list; does the Hydra have only a front arc for it's AA bubble on a Warlord or is it all round?

On a related question (couldn't be bothered to start off another thread for it) do fire arcs apply to small arms and/or close combat weapon attacks?

It's all round, and it's not worth taking. :-)


If they're noted as having a restricted fire arc for that mount, yes.

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Yes the Hydra fires all round, from the notes section on the Battle titan weapons.



I believe they still have the fire arc of the mount they are on, hopefully Tiny Tim will confirm or deny soon.

I can confirm that the arcs remain, but I haven't had a situation where the Titan hasn't been able to turn to full effect.

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Thanks! I had been reading the list on my mobile and over-looked that.

When I first read over the list I thought the Hydra was a terrible choice people would be crazy to give up a powered up battle titan weapon for.

The list is pretty inflexible however... I want to run a list with a Warlord, Reaver and 4 Warhounds plus Thunderbolts and a Spaceship. 7 (8 one turn) activations is as low as I'd like to go. Even if I swapped the spacecraft for a second unit of Thunderbolts (I won't as I think a Spacecraft is more useful in the list) some ground AA would still really be advisable and there are zero left over points for Carapace Multi Lasers and no weapon options or other things to fiddle with to free up points. I wouldn't touch the robots in this list with a ten foot barge pole and I'd rather take a Hydra than pair up a couple of Warhounds and lose an activation for points for CMLs.

A 45cm AA bubble around a Warlord has it's advantages to slightly protect an all titan list from air assaults anyway and it's very hard to suppress.

For the titan shooting I agree, the negative impacts would be more felt on the titan being assaulted or not being able to support fire though.

I'd believed the powerfist to be a good put-off defensive weapon but if arcs apply 4 Terminators could teleport behind a Warlord and charge it (positioned in such a way so that even if it countercharges towards the nearest far off nearest enemy unit it doesn't get arc on them) without it being able to bring it's powerfist to bear.

Dont think the hydra will put much off air assaulting tbh - it's not like the assaulter is really looking to break the titan (especially warhound), they're looking at killing it instead.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the 4 warhounds - originally i thought that was the way to go with the list, but in testing i found that against any army with air assault capability they were a complete liability, so i've been steadily increasing the reavers, and next time i use them i suspect it will be a battle titan only list! It's great having 7 or 8 activations turn 1, not so great when you only have 3 by turn 3, at which point still having your original 5 doesn't seem so bad

After a few games and discussions about the AMTL list, I have to agree with Glyn earlier that some weapons, but especially the quake cannon, are really underpowered in the list

as it is, coupled with a CLP which takes up a weapon slot and weakens your firepower further, it can chuck out a single template MW barrage which can hit most of the table, every other turn, if you take a warlord and pay for a veteran princeps, you can fire a single barrage every turn by taking 2 quake cannons, and a 900 point titan is pretty wasted sitting on the baseline...

compare to a great gargant who can fire a two template MW barrage every turn AND has two TK shooting attacks AND a couple of big gunz AND a CCW weapon AND costs 50 points less.... the only limitation being that he can't fire indirectly, and the titan looks pretty weak

if this is to discourage the blitz guard artillery reaver, it's not a great way as you can still make one using the AML, which given that it lobs out two templates every turn and costs 50 points less, isnt going to discourage their use whatsoever...

I also think the plasma destructor is too weak, you gain range which is very potent, but drop from MW2+ to MW3+ little bit of a zero-sum game in my mind.... and you pay 50 points for that privilege

given the rest of the shooting in the army had a massive shot in the arm, it seems strange to me that you'd ever choose anything other than the volcano cannon for a battle titan, unless going with some unorthodox build and using the one-shot missiles.....

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