Tactical Command :: View topic - Rogue Trader Expeditionary Force

I'd build it like the IG list. You have to take the Reg HQ, then you add platoons or companies to achieve your desired army composition.

I'd assume little to no artillery (you have aircraft and/or spacecraft for that),

and few heavy vehicles (not likely to be dragging a LRuss Company around). Something lighter like Marine Armor (Rhinos and Predators), maybe, but no LRuss or Land Raiders.

Oh, what about some 'alternate' light tanks: Chimera with autocannon or HK missiles, or some sort of light-attack dune buggy?

As far as the balance issue goes, about all I can think of is to have a defined role for each unit (like the Tau or Eldar lists). Then you end up picking the roles you want to fill instead of the units. In the case of the Tau, FW are the line infantry unit, Pathfinders are a support infantry unit, Crisis suits are the jack-of-all shooting, and Broadsides are AT death incarnate.

Any force needs a scouting element, a main infantry force, AT abilities, and something fast to exploit holes. Since you already own orbit, you can use aircraft as your artillery concept.

Lion in the Stars:

Quote:

And the problem with that is that you run the risk of ending up with armies that look very much the same, as well as with armies that don't make much sense in regard to background (if you can simply choose the best/most useful units, then there's technically nothing stopping you from just using particular units from each army for what they're good at, while ignoring the elements of that army that aren't quite as good as elements of other armies.

Quote:

Any force needs a scouting element, a main infantry force, AT abilities, and something fast to exploit holes. Since you already own orbit, you can use aircraft as your artillery concept.

What I'm going to (more or less) try to do is allow most factions to have something of that available to them.

Every Rogue Trader army needs a "sponsor". This is the military group from which the Rogue Trader draws most of his force's strength. The obvious choices for sponsors are Space Marines and Imperial Guard. If anyone can think of some others, don't hesitate to mention them. 1/3 of the army's points must be selected from the available "sponsor" choices. You may also opt to have no sponsor.

There will also be "trustworthy" choices. Rogue Trader retinue units, sponsor units and one other unit choice (chosen at list creation) are "trustworthy". At least 2/3 of the army's points must be spent on trustworthy units. There may be some bonus for units being trustworthy (or penalty for them not).

Here's what I'm thinking for setup.

Rogue Trader Retinue
Rogue Trader with Retinue (Basically the Rogue Trader with some stormtroopers)
Rogue Trader Bondsmen (slightly better than standard Guard infantry)
Rogue Trader Bondsman Armor (light tanks)
Rogue Trader Fleet (mandatory. Possibly upgradable)

Sponsors:
Space Marines
Tactical Detachment (upgradable with Devastators and Assault Marines)
Fast Attack Detachment (Bikes and/or Land Speeders)
Vehicle Detachment (Predators and/or Vindicators)
Thunderhawk Gunship (limited to a certain number in total)
0-1 Terminator Detachment
0-1 Land Raider Detachment

Imperial Guard
Infantry Company (with option to mechanize)
Sentinel Platoon
Russ Platoon
Heavy Weapons Platoon
Hellhound Platoon
0-2 Stormtrooper Detachment (with Valkyrie option)

Mercenaries
Blood Axe Kommandoz
Kroot Warriors
Eldar Pirates
Eldar Pirate Jetbikes
Demiurg Battery
Demiurg Warriors
Tarellian Dog Soldiers
Ogryn Mercenaries
Hrud Arbalestiers
Beastman Troopers

Other options for mercenaries? The Cardochians? The Cimmeriacs? Donarathi? Loxatl? Vassalia? Fra'al? Chuffians? Anyone know anything about any of them?

Thoughts in general?

Doesn't have to be a 'best' unit, just a unit that is there to Scout, for example.

I think you'd be better served by requiring a sponsor. Where-ever you're getting the stuff from, someone needs to be providing your military force.

I'm not sure about the beastmen allies, they've been pretty much retconned out of current IG fluff (as chaos-tainted). I believe that Loxatl are chaos-tainted (at least they were in the Gaunt's Ghosts books), so they're not available to a loyalist, either.

I also have a hard time picturing Orks of any kind working alongside humans.

Eldar seem to be more likely to travel alongside, but not with you (so they'd be out of the 1/3 allies section). I suppose that we could put all the Aliens into the 1/3 allies contingent, if we make the RT's ship a 0-1 or a must-take item. Always having a cruiser overhead is a powerful part of an army that would otherwise be hurting for War Engine killing.

If I choose Space Marine Sponsorship, can I take IG units (or visa versa? If I chose not to have a Sponsor, may I take any units from the "Sponsored" lists? May I choose two Sponsors?

My suggestion would be no to all of the above.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Rogue Trader Expeditionary Force
Look! It's an army list. Attachment: Rogue Trader - 0.1.pdf [103.03 KiB] Downloaded 611 times This is supposed to, well, represent a Rogue Trader expeditionary force. I've tried for a wide variety of mercenaries and other options so that an appropriately eclectic feel can be established. Thoughts, comments, and suggestions on things to add, remove or leave the same are very welcome, as are questions about the list in general. * * * Original Post: Well, while the current version of the Apocrypha of Skaros mellows, I've been pondering my other big army plan - a Rogue Trader force. The list would, hopefully, be able to represent a Rogue Trader with the eclectic variety of forces they attract. Hopefully it would be able to represent everything from a mostly-Imperial force to a collection of mercenaries and household troops. The initial plan works something like this: There will be a basic group of Household Troops - some light armor, medium and light infantry, spaceships and possibly a little air or fire support. These will be unlimited in selection - beyond the mandatory Rogue Trader (and his small bodyguard), you can take as few or as many of these as you like. After that, it gets a little more complicated. The various other units available will be divided into different factions based on their origins - such as Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Orks, Eldar, Mercenaries, that sort of thing. You will be limited to two faction "choices" a Tier 1 and a Tier 2 choice. The Tier 1 faction can be up to 66% of the army, and the Tier 2 faction up to 33%. Choose the same faction for Tier 1 and Tier 2, and you unlock a few more advanced unit choices (such as Terminators for the Space Marines and Baneblades for the Imperial Guard). Each faction should have between four and six units to choose from. This should lead to a wide variety of possible choices, but limit things enough for balance to be achievable. Thoughts on this as a structure?

Author:	frogbear [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
goes to break out the Rogue Trader book to read up on some background

Author:	Lion in the Stars [ Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Which Rogue Trader book? The original 40k, or the RT RPG?[/pedant] I'd build it like the IG list. You have to take the Reg HQ, then you add platoons or companies to achieve your desired army composition. I'd assume little to no artillery (you have aircraft and/or spacecraft for that), and few heavy vehicles (not likely to be dragging a LRuss Company around). Something lighter like Marine Armor (Rhinos and Predators), maybe, but no LRuss or Land Raiders.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Quote: I'd build it like the IG list. You have to take the Reg HQ, then you add platoons or companies to achieve your desired army composition. I'd thought about this a little, but I had a few worries. Mostly, I just wasn't sure how to balance the need to maintain diversity of unit choice without allowing people to take one of everything and make the list really, really tricky to balance. Quote: I'd assume little to no artillery (you have aircraft and/or spacecraft for that), Agreed. I might include some as Demiurg mercenaries, but they'd be it. Quote: and few heavy vehicles (not likely to be dragging a LRuss Company around). Something lighter like Marine Armor (Rhinos and Predators), maybe, but no LRuss or Land Raiders. I'd been going to keep heavy armor as a Tier 2 option, generally speaking. LR Platoons might be the exception.

Author:	vanvlak [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Tau traders too.

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Rogue Trader Expeditionary Force http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19233	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Lion in the Stars [ Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Oh, what about some 'alternate' light tanks: Chimera with autocannon or HK missiles, or some sort of light-attack dune buggy? As far as the balance issue goes, about all I can think of is to have a defined role for each unit (like the Tau or Eldar lists). Then you end up picking the roles you want to fill instead of the units. In the case of the Tau, FW are the line infantry unit, Pathfinders are a support infantry unit, Crisis suits are the jack-of-all shooting, and Broadsides are AT death incarnate. Any force needs a scouting element, a main infantry force, AT abilities, and something fast to exploit holes. Since you already own orbit, you can use aircraft as your artillery concept.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
vanvlak: Quote: Tau traders too. They'll definitely be mentioned in the fluff - I may not bother jumping through all the hoops to make specific options for them. * * * Lion in the Stars: Quote: Oh, what about some 'alternate' light tanks: Chimera with autocannon or HK missiles, or some sort of light-attack dune buggy? The trick is, since the list has to represent a wide variety of possible 'sources' of units (such as the Space Marines, the Imperial Guard, Eldar pirates, Ork mercenaries, etc), having specific strange units limits the possibilities somewhat. Quote: As far as the balance issue goes, about all I can think of is to have a defined role for each unit (like the Tau or Eldar lists). Then you end up picking the roles you want to fill instead of the units. In the case of the Tau, FW are the line infantry unit, Pathfinders are a support infantry unit, Crisis suits are the jack-of-all shooting, and Broadsides are AT death incarnate. And the problem with that is that you run the risk of ending up with armies that look very much the same, as well as with armies that don't make much sense in regard to background (if you can simply choose the best/most useful units, then there's technically nothing stopping you from just using particular units from each army for what they're good at, while ignoring the elements of that army that aren't quite as good as elements of other armies. Quote: Any force needs a scouting element, a main infantry force, AT abilities, and something fast to exploit holes. Since you already own orbit, you can use aircraft as your artillery concept. What I'm going to (more or less) try to do is allow most factions to have something of that available to them. * * * General: I've thought some more about the whole "tier" system, and while I kind of like it, I think it might be simpler to just go with something of this nature. Every Rogue Trader army needs a "sponsor". This is the military group from which the Rogue Trader draws most of his force's strength. The obvious choices for sponsors are Space Marines and Imperial Guard. If anyone can think of some others, don't hesitate to mention them. 1/3 of the army's points must be selected from the available "sponsor" choices. You may also opt to have no sponsor. There will also be "trustworthy" choices. Rogue Trader retinue units, sponsor units and one other unit choice (chosen at list creation) are "trustworthy". At least 2/3 of the army's points must be spent on trustworthy units. There may be some bonus for units being trustworthy (or penalty for them not). Here's what I'm thinking for setup. Rogue Trader Retinue Rogue Trader with Retinue (Basically the Rogue Trader with some stormtroopers) Rogue Trader Bondsmen (slightly better than standard Guard infantry) Rogue Trader Bondsman Armor (light tanks) Rogue Trader Fleet (mandatory. Possibly upgradable) Sponsors: Space Marines Tactical Detachment (upgradable with Devastators and Assault Marines) Fast Attack Detachment (Bikes and/or Land Speeders) Vehicle Detachment (Predators and/or Vindicators) Thunderhawk Gunship (limited to a certain number in total) 0-1 Terminator Detachment 0-1 Land Raider Detachment Imperial Guard Infantry Company (with option to mechanize) Sentinel Platoon Russ Platoon Heavy Weapons Platoon Hellhound Platoon 0-2 Stormtrooper Detachment (with Valkyrie option) Mercenaries Blood Axe Kommandoz Kroot Warriors Eldar Pirates Eldar Pirate Jetbikes Demiurg Battery Demiurg Warriors Tarellian Dog Soldiers Ogryn Mercenaries Hrud Arbalestiers Beastman Troopers Other options for mercenaries? The Cardochians? The Cimmeriacs? Donarathi? Loxatl? Vassalia? Fra'al? Chuffians? Anyone know anything about any of them? Thoughts in general?

Author:	Lion in the Stars [ Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Simulated Knave wrote: Lion in the Stars: Quote: As far as the balance issue goes, about all I can think of is to have a defined role for each unit (like the Tau or Eldar lists). Then you end up picking the roles you want to fill instead of the units. In the case of the Tau, FW are the line infantry unit, Pathfinders are a support infantry unit, Crisis suits are the jack-of-all shooting, and Broadsides are AT death incarnate. And the problem with that is that you run the risk of ending up with armies that look very much the same, as well as with armies that don't make much sense in regard to background (if you can simply choose the best/most useful units, then there's technically nothing stopping you from just using particular units from each army for what they're good at, while ignoring the elements of that army that aren't quite as good as elements of other armies. Doesn't have to be a 'best' unit, just a unit that is there to Scout, for example. Quote: Quote: Any force needs a scouting element, a main infantry force, AT abilities, and something fast to exploit holes. Since you already own orbit, you can use aircraft as your artillery concept. What I'm going to (more or less) try to do is allow most factions to have something of that available to them. Cool, that works pretty well. Quote: Every Rogue Trader army needs a "sponsor". This is the military group from which the Rogue Trader draws most of his force's strength. The obvious choices for sponsors are Space Marines and Imperial Guard. If anyone can think of some others, don't hesitate to mention them. 1/3 of the army's points must be selected from the available "sponsor" choices. You may also opt to have no sponsor. There will also be "trustworthy" choices. Rogue Trader retinue units, sponsor units and one other unit choice (chosen at list creation) are "trustworthy". At least 2/3 of the army's points must be spent on trustworthy units. There may be some bonus for units being trustworthy (or penalty for them not). Here's what I'm thinking for setup. Rogue Trader Retinue Rogue Trader with Retinue (Basically the Rogue Trader with some stormtroopers) Rogue Trader Bondsmen (slightly better than standard Guard infantry) Rogue Trader Bondsman Armor (light tanks) Rogue Trader Fleet (mandatory. Possibly upgradable) Sponsors: Space Marines Tactical Detachment (upgradable with Devastators and Assault Marines) Fast Attack Detachment (Bikes and/or Land Speeders) Vehicle Detachment (Predators and/or Vindicators) Thunderhawk Gunship (limited to a certain number in total) 0-1 Terminator Detachment 0-1 Land Raider Detachment Imperial Guard Infantry Company (with option to mechanize) Sentinel Platoon Russ Platoon Heavy Weapons Platoon Hellhound Platoon 0-2 Stormtrooper Detachment (with Valkyrie option) Mercenaries Blood Axe Kommandoz Kroot Warriors Eldar Pirates Eldar Pirate Jetbikes Demiurg Battery Demiurg Warriors Tarellian Dog Soldiers Ogryn Mercenaries Hrud Arbalestiers Beastman Troopers Other options for mercenaries? The Cardochians? The Cimmeriacs? Donarathi? Loxatl? Vassalia? Fra'al? Chuffians? Anyone know anything about any of them? Thoughts in general? I think you'd be better served by requiring a sponsor. Where-ever you're getting the stuff from, someone needs to be providing your military force. I'm not sure about the beastmen allies, they've been pretty much retconned out of current IG fluff (as chaos-tainted). I believe that Loxatl are chaos-tainted (at least they were in the Gaunt's Ghosts books), so they're not available to a loyalist, either. I also have a hard time picturing Orks of any kind working alongside humans. Eldar seem to be more likely to travel alongside, but not with you (so they'd be out of the 1/3 allies section). I suppose that we could put all the Aliens into the 1/3 allies contingent, if we make the RT's ship a 0-1 or a must-take item. Always having a cruiser overhead is a powerful part of an army that would otherwise be hurting for War Engine killing.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Quote: Doesn't have to be a 'best' unit, just a unit that is there to Scout, for example. I'm thinking of this more in connection to whichever organization had been going to provide the bulk of the military. For example, why take Predators if you could have Russes? Quote: I think you'd be better served by requiring a sponsor. Where-ever you're getting the stuff from, someone needs to be providing your military force. If an army opted out of a sponsor, it would draw its forces from the Retinue formations and whichever mercenary unit it chose as trustworthy. Look on it as a combination of independent contractors, fealty servants and alliances with local powers. Quote: I'm not sure about the beastmen allies, they've been pretty much retconned out of current IG fluff (as chaos-tainted). I believe that Loxatl are chaos-tainted (at least they were in the Gaunt's Ghosts books), so they're not available to a loyalist, either. Were all Loxatl Chaos-tainted, or just those ones? I'm not entirely sure about the Beastmen myself, but they do have the advantage of having models. If something has models and makes reasonable sense as a mercenary, it seems a shame not to include it. Quote: I also have a hard time picturing Orks of any kind working alongside humans. The Blood Axes apparently do. Among other things, they've served as scouts for Imperial armies. Massacre at Big Toof River, IIRC. Quote: Eldar seem to be more likely to travel alongside, but not with you (so they'd be out of the 1/3 allies section). I suppose that we could put all the Aliens into the 1/3 allies contingent, if we make the RT's ship a 0-1 or a must-take item. Always having a cruiser overhead is a powerful part of an army that would otherwise be hurting for War Engine killing. I actually wasn't going to have an allies section any more. As long as you meet the minimums on sponsorship and trustworthy troops, you can do whatever you like.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
A draft army list has been added to the first post. Units, options, the whole thing (except fluff). Thoughts and opinions welcomed.

Author:	Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
If I choose Space Marine Sponsorship, can I take IG units (or visa versa? If I chose not to have a Sponsor, may I take any units from the "Sponsored" lists? May I choose two Sponsors? My suggestion would be no to all of the above. If otherwise, everyone would choose no sponsor, in order to have free reign in list design, or two, in order to have the most 'trusted' units possible.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Quote: If I choose Space Marine Sponsorship, can I take IG units (or visa versa? If I chose not to have a Sponsor, may I take any units from the "Sponsored" lists? May I choose two Sponsors? Check the second page. "1.1.1.1 Sponsors - A Rogue Trader's forces generally include some form of official military support from the Adeptus Astartes or the Imperial Guard. A Rogue Trader army may, if it wishes, choose either as its sponsor. If so, then they may select Space Marine OR Imperial Guard detachments accordingly. If they do not choose a sponsor, they may not select Space Marine or Imperial Guard units." It might be clearer if I switched 'either' to 'one', but I think it answers your questions. Though now that I look at it, I'm a little worried about whether it's sufficiently clear you can't take both sponsors. Your thoughts? Quote: My suggestion would be no to all of the above. And you'd be correct.

Author:	Spectrar Ghost [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader
Sorry, guess I didn't scroll far enough up... didn't see the doc. That's sufficiently clear. Will look the doc over more closely soon.

Author:	Simulated Knave [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader Expeditionary Force
Anyone have any thoughts on the whole thing? Or on the individual elements?

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Author:	madmagician [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rogue Trader Expeditionary Force
SK, I like the overall idea of the list, but I am unfamiliar with many of the mentioned races, so I don't know what they bring to the table. I do worry a bit that artillery and tank support may be lacking making the IG sponsored list a bit tougher to use, or making it just not get taken at all in favor of a SM sponsored list (that thawk + teleporting termie thing I personally don't like). I am also a bit confused by the "trusted" allies it reads to me like your army must be 80% Sponsor + trusted? That can't be right and I must be reading it wrong.