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| Hellfury Gun http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=16149 |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
I haven't got any prior information on the Hellfury other than it's a starship weapon. How does it compare to a Nova Cannon background wise. Currently stat wise the Nova Cannon is considerably more powerful. I assume the Hellfury is much smaller than the Nova Cannon and the Cyclops much smaller than an Ordinatus Majoris. Another thing, I assume the Cyclops is the same chassis as the Leviathan and Colossus but are different sized models based on Era of release. |
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| Author: | epilgrim [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
if memory serves both were Dark Age technology weapons in the Titan Legions fluff. They were some of the nastiest weapons out there, but I can't remember which one was considered more powerful... can you display which stats you are comparing? size wise the ordinatus model and the cyclops are not that different. overall the ordinatus are thin and tall, they all have the same cab in front and what looks like a combination of a scaffold and a platform on which the weapons sit. the squat war engines are all based on the leviathan hull..and they are squat. the cyclops Hullfury is very large when compared to most other epic weapon systems. sadly, as you noted, there is no possible way to compare many of the pieces in epic as epic models don't always conform to a consistant scale. I'll try to look through my old books and get an idea of thier old stats; after you post what you are comparing we can discuss further. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
Quote: (arkturas @ 14 Jul. 2009, 12:06 ) I assume the Cyclops is the same chassis as the Leviathan and Colossus but are different sized models based on Era of release. They look similar, but I think are all different models actually. You can see side by side photos at the useful Epic Collector website. Direct links to a sub-page there don't seem to work, but click on The Epic Model Catalog on the left, followed by Squats on the left and then Crawlers on the top. |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
The only E:A stats I can find are the Ordinatus Majoris in the War Gryphons list, I'm looking at the Amageddon version that comes in a 550pts. The Ordinatus Majoris are much weaker on core stats with 10cm move, 5+RA armour, 6+ CC and 4+FF. They have secondary weapons of 2 Heavy Bolters (AP5+) and 2 Lascannons (AT5+). DC4 with 4 void shields but die to a single critical. Also Inspiring. The Nova Cannon comes in at 100cm range, 4x MW3+ TK(D3) compared to the Hellfury at 90cm range 2x MW2+ TK(2). The Nova Cannon has potential for Titan vaporisation while the Hellfury is more consistent but overall lower damage. The Hellfury just seems a little underwhelming for the almost mythical reputation it has particularly considering the power limitation rules in the squat list and more severe version under the Demiurg list. (maybe just me fondly mis-remembering potential titan vaporising as I didn't have one). |
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| Author: | epilgrim [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
All I can tell you is that in previous editions of Epic the Hellfury was really gross and capable of doing more damage than the Ordinatus Armageddon. For EA Jaldon and I agreed to a profile that was slightly better than any other range TK we knew of; with a built in limitation that made the potential of the weapon fair, in our opinion. I have not read of anyone facing the firepower of the Ordinatus in a bat-rep or gamed against a player with one, so i have no comment on the profile. |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
The general impression I get of TK class weapons is mostly in the D3 damage range with some rarer D6 on CC only and one-shots. The Armageddon Nova Cannon stats appear to come from a Volcano Cannon multiple. It comes in at 90cm MW2+ TK(D3) and is +50pts. The Nova Cannon is +150pts so 3 Volcano Cannons worth that's been dropped to MW3+ for an extra shot and 10cm more range. I haven't used or seen/read about the Cyclops in action so I don't know whether it does it's job at knocking out WE's. I can't see it standing up in a toe to toe fight with any titan above a warhound but it would certainly keep any titan hiding. I still feel it could do with a little bit more, like TK(D3) but that would go against the consistant well made feel of the list and making it 3x MW2+ TK(2) is a bit too much. |
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| Author: | epilgrim [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
the hellfury will stay as is for now, the only consideration at one point was adding 10cm to its range, but for now I see no need. Tactically the cyclops is a sort of matador/sniper we, it can hide, tap you with indirect at long range and deliver a killing blow. if force to tangle it has some nasty short range sucker punches, and of course, a spare battle cannon. as with most of the Demiurg list this WE is not a solution by itself; part of the attack even for a titan hunter is getting a few dogs to weaken your target and expose its vitals. |
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| Author: | arkturas [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
I could agree with you on the close range punch on the Squat cyclops but not the Demiurg version. I wouldn't want the Demiurg Cyclops getting caught by the enemy. I don't think the upgunned crucible cannons compensate for the better fire arcs, additional attack with the doomstorm missiles and 4 additional attacks if engaged in an assault that the Squat Cyclops has. I might get to use it at some point so I'll see, if it gets in instead of a Colossus. Also is the Colossus with spotter supposed to be 50pts more expensive in the Squat list (Colossus is 450pts and spotter is 50pt upgrade). |
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| Author: | epilgrim [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hellfury Gun |
there are some things that Jaldon and I decided to keep different most notably the WE profiles. He agreed to tone down their original stats and I up-gunned a few, but the differences remain. I personally think the Ironhawk is accounted for in the Colossus' point cost. We await player feedback and bat-reps to consider any further consolidation or changes. From my own experiences; having played the Demiurg list consistantly over the past 3+ years, they seem to fit thier profile/point values and garner few negative comments. Maybe that means they are under-powered, but their win-loss ratio suggests that they can hold their own if played properly. |
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