Tau are the one EPIC army I have no models for at all; I've playtested them with proxies, thought about ordering some, and I really like them conceptually, but the Tau development just seems to constantly go in circles, never getting to the Greater Good.

To me, part of the cause is the artificial restrictions on the capablities of Fire Warriors, and other "close-in" units, that has been put on the list.  Fire Warriors, who should be a "staple" unit, seem relegated to the side-lines and don't pack the punch they seem to in 40k (Yes, I know that's a three-letter 'word'!).

So, I've been thinking about this... as I tend to do, and put together a semi-radical proposal for the Tau army.  Many things are changed, but little is "dropped".  I'd like people to take a look at it and let me know what they think.

Some changes:

- The artificial restriction on firefight values/abilites has been dropped
- The Special Rules have been trimmed
- Guided Missiles can only target "marked" units
- Formation upgrades allow for a *lot* of flexibility/customization of Cadres
- Fire Warriors get markerlights
- Stingray and Scorpionfish dropped, but support Hammerheads and a "Missile Carrier" Orca added
- Many stat tweaks

[EDIT] - Another thing, the formations/upgrades are designed to match the ForgeWorld Tau packaging as much as possible.

At first glance, the list I've put together may look like it has a big potential for "popcorn", but it would be an extremely fragile way to build an army and is quite in line with any of the other army lists "popcorn potential".

I sent CS an early draft of the proposal a week ago, but haven't heard anything back from him, so I'm opening it up to the rest of you.

For the Greater Good!

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Are the skyrays AA misiles supposed to be guided as they can't shoot unless the aircraft is lit?

Yes.  

But the Skyray has a Markerlight so can always target aircraft at 30cm, or at extended range if the enemy planes are near other markerlight units.

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So going on the normal ground flak rules, where you just have to pass through the flak envelope during approach/disengagement move, for the skyray you would have to move through both its range and a marker lit area? Just chekcing as this may produce some funky situations were the skyray hasn't moved, but the flak rush is caused by a formation with marker lights!

On the whole I like the look of the list and I'm glad all the Tau guys will have something new to discuss (or argue depending on you view on life   )

Well, technically, Guided Missiles are "called in" by the unit with the Markerlight, so it makes a certain amount of Tau-sense... *laugh*

On the whole I like the look of the list and I'm glad all the Tau guys will have something new to discuss (or argue depending on you view on life   )

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First glance:

Drones still don't give BMs when on their own?

Why is the deflector shield save made before armour saves? I assume it's to represent the shot not reaching the armour, but mathematically there's no difference, so it just confuses matters. It is also slightly slower that way, since you are more likely to fail the 5+ than the 4+ you would otherwise initially roll.

Crisis suits seem too good in an assault. Is the extra attack neccesary? Why not just a single 4+ macro?

Hero and Custodian are listed as being able to carry Morays, which are not in the list.

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Drones are "expendable"... hoping to get that ability/keyword into the general Epic lexicon, so, in the final definition, like Grots, formations of just Drones will get Blast markers.

Why is the deflector shield save made before armour saves? I assume it's to represent the shot not reaching the armour, but mathematically there's no difference, so it just confuses matters.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Coordinated fire still seems like it would be difficult for us to judge it's impact on the game. Something similar to the Farsight rule to allow the Tau to retain twice in a row if the formation contains a unit with Coordinated fire is tested more thoroughly.

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I didn't change the Co-ordinated Fire rule at all from the current 'real' list...

I haven't seen the "extra retain"/Farsight-like proposal suggested anywhere before, though I may have just missed it.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

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Sorry, I was just spit balling. I don't believe it is anywhere else.

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Squats 2019-10-17

Coordinated fire has been in the Tau list for a long time and is well tested.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I doubt that the FF Tau army will ever be a starter. There are FF armies out that already and more importantly its amoung the few pieces of clear guidance from Jervis about the Tau, namely not good at assaults, so lower values than other races would have with the same gear.

Also the implications for the list is that you first have to look closely at air assaults. So for 305 I get the cheap throw away kroot and orca combo (12 x CC4+ +1MW4+/12 x FF5+), for 500 the FW and Orca (12 x FF4+, 3xFF6+ with both).

You than have the Tau mechanised troops being a very mean assault formation (the advantages it already has with skimmers being used to defend against CC'ers and all that, combined with now a better FF).

The implication of all of it is less shooting more assaulting. Yes I know assaults include small arms fire, but its not as recognisably shooting as rolling dice for guns - something the Tau were meant to rely on.

Otherwise I'm all for the pack sizes thing - I tried the same thing in the list I posted a while back. I do think 3 is too small a default number though for infantry formations.

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And well known how to break it to, but list design doesn't always take that into account

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General Plumer, 191x

Occasionally, rarely, Jervis is wrong.  

I think that limitation has hurt the Tau list development, not unlike the "No Blast markers for Tyranids" thing from way back.  Changing that single rule for Tyranids made a world of difference and really helped development.  I think changes like my proposal should be tried, they can always be rolled-back/eliminated if they don't work.

Tau still have some of the best gun-firing units in the game.

Also the implications for the list is that you first have to look closely at air assaults. So for 305 I get the cheap throw away kroot and orca combo (12 x CC4+ +1MW4+/12 x FF5+), for 500 the FW and Orca (12 x FF4+, 3xFF6+ with both).[quote]

The "Kroot Assault" Orca combo is already essentially available in the current list, less guys, but cheaper as well.  As to the FW/Orca assault... for 500 points, that should be scary... current incarnation of that will *shred* infantry... and even using it in a FF5+ assault isn't that bad.

[quote]Otherwise I'm all for the pack sizes thing - I tried the same thing in the list I posted a while back. I do think 3 is too small a default number though for infantry formations.

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I used to be firmly in the camp of the 4+ FF for FW etc, but I've actually been swung across recently.

The argument that there are enough FF armies already makes sense, and looking at your list most hypothetical builds I can see would play a lot like eldar. The Tau need their own "feel", and for good or bad the current system does provide that.

While the poor FF of the main list doesn't immediately make a huge ammount of sense, it can be explained away by the Tau ducking for cover when the enemy fires back at them, plus their constant retreat when the enemy is near, both of which would reduce their FF effectiveness. The Tau refuse to sacrifice troops, so lining up and blasting at each other, or allowing the enemy close enough to close combat is just not their style of warfare.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread