On the cyclops again, Why does the Demiurg version have 2 Crucible Cannons when you can only fire 1 due to the power flux rule.

I haven't got the model yet, still looking, but at the moment I wouldn't use it as the Colossus is a better all round vehicle. If I used the Squat list though the Cyclops is a little more tempting with the option of close fire support that the Demiurg Cyclops doesn't have.

Here is a theme question for the developers:

IF you had all of the unit stats identical, what would be the benefit of playing one list over the other?  Not that one list would necssarily be more powerful but what are there main functions?

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

uh, interesting note, i can see where the wording between the 2 profiles would cause some confusion. For the Demiurg the rule specifies that one weapon system in addition to the turret can be fired each turn.

The Hellfury, the doomstorms and the Crucibles are each seperate systems. the Crucibles fire together.

Each weapon on the cyclops is different and gross to get hit by. if you could throw everything it had in one turn nobody would accept such combos. I had a little fun by considering this arsenal as a mad scientists dream-weapon, nasty but unbalanced. the handicapping keeps it fair IMO.

Is the Squat version better or more unbalanced? You'd have to play both and see what happens or what your opponents think. For my part I have found that the Demiurg version is nasty at any range and the trade-offs are worth the lethality...especially against another titan.

The Colossus is a great all around WE, but it filles a different slot, primarily as a weapon capable of fighting off horde formations. Against another titan it is on shaky ground.

it is all a question of what you regularly face...in a blind tourney at 3,000 points i'd field a colossus and 2 overlords. If I knew I was facing AMTL I'd take a cyclops and spacecraft.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

It's a good point, I agree that unless you know you're fighting titans then the Demiurg cyclops isn't worth it, I think the squat one though might be.

The alpha strike (Not using hellfury) from the squat cyclops is essentially around battle titan class with 4xMW4+, 1 AP4+/AT4+ and 4BP MW barrage. The Demiurg version gains indirect on the barrage and boosts the 4xMW4+ to 4 MW3+ and ignore cover but of course can't fire them all.

The squat version can operate like the colossus as a horde sweeper, it's got the fire arcs, fire rate and extra small arms attacks. The Demiurg version really needs to stay far away, sniping with the hellfury or missiles because if it gets flanked it's in trouble.

Let's see if I've got this right then. The Demiurg cyclops is a long range support vehicle to engage WE's and the crucible cannon is a weapon of last resort if something gets too close while the squat cyclops is an upgunned colossus to take on WE's.

So essentially in almost all situations the squats could replace a colossus with a cyclops to do the same job but the demiurg use the cyclops in a different tactical bracket completely.

The examples I gave you were general in nature, so don't treat them as absolutes.

Your analysis of the Demiurg WE are correct in that both are highly specialized towards a specific tactical solution, but you are giving the Squat profiles too much credit for being equally capable in any situation. They too are a best fit against specific type of targets as previously discussed.

The Squat versions fit Jaldon's preference for viewing them as assault platforms while I prefer to view them as Super Heavy Support. Additionally, the attack profile of the Squat Cyclops is considerably heavier than any other titan at 500 points, but whether or not that is a problem is a matter of playtesting to resolve. Jaldon and I are confident of our results to date and we have not seen a reason to change them any further than when we combined the lists last year.

I look forward to any feedback when you begin playing them; please note anything of import it will be greatly appreciated.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

are you being rehtorical or funny? maybe a recent head wound?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

From this thread here...

I'm not sure if any of you read what ePilgrim wrote, but he did a lot of work on the name Demiurg and explained the origin of the name Squats as a derogatory term.  This explanation will perpetuate through to -and be expanded upon in- the Xenos project.

If I respond to every post we might as well just write the whole darned thing on the threads, but suffice to say all of us on the Xenos project don't believe Squats refer to themselves as Squats.  However, this is an Imperium centered game and the name Squats will apply to both factions of the stunties.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'll be the first to admit that when I first heard the name "Squats" I didn't like it, but over time it grew on me and now I actually like it. I always figured that it was the (perhaps derogatory)name the Imperium gave them, but not what they called themselves.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

So you're making up a new name for the Squats?


Do we get to vote to pick our favourite new name?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

No, we're not voting.  

However, this is an open forum and if you have any suggestions throw them out.  We're not dead set on the one we have (although I consider it a solid standby) so if you come up with something better we'll take it.

It won't matter much to anyone who doesn't read the fictional part anyway, so only the true die-hards will care.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

What name have you picked?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

You'll find out if you guys can't come up with something better.  

Seriously though, I think there is too much of Xenos out here on the forum to begin with.  I'm all for open development for the lists but the creative stuff needs to be controlled in a tight group or it will just be nitpicked to death.

Imagine had we written the Raiders fiction a chapter at a time on the forum and asked for feedback.  Oy, we would never have finished!

"The C'tan would never act like that"
"Dark Eldar don't have war engines, stop writing about them!"
"An Imperial Commissar would never do that"
"Battlefleet Gothic sucks, take it out of the book now"

And so on.

People are welcome to volunteer for the project and get a peak behind the veil.  It just also means they have to deal with my slavemaster, primadona, constant complaining, obsessive compulsive, deadline harping personality.  (Oh how all of you wish I was exaggerating....)

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

You'll find out if you guys can't come up with something better.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

You are really going to go 15 rounds over this?  Seriously?  

It doesn't affect the lists, it doesn't affect the names of the lists (They will still be Thurgrimm's and Demiurg as they are now).  It doesn't affect anything else in the entire Epic world.  I'm saying we're open to suggestions AND I'm saying that we're willing to take volunteers on to help out with development.  IMO our obligations to the community are met.  

At this point though I am dreading mentioning anything at all.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Yeah I think the name of the entire race is an important decision which deserves revealing.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter