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[Tau] A contraversial proposal for change

 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:06 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 21 Nov. 2008, 18:42 )

It's just the "base" of the formations, there's little reason *not* to bulk them up with upgrades.  And the basic Fire Warrior formation is six stands.

There is a big reason to not bulk them up - activation count. High activations break Tau more than most armies, as they nullify the main downside of coordinated fire.

3 is just too small.

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 21 Nov. 2008, 18:42 )

I think changes like my proposal should be tried, they can always be rolled-back/eliminated if they don't work.

It's just the "base" of the formations, there's little reason *not* to bulk them up with upgrades.  And the basic Fire Warrior formation is six stands.

Thanks for your input and I hope we can discuss this more!

We do play differently then - the upgrades cost more per stand, so why would I give away an activation advantage with shooting units in an army with co-ord fire? More blast markers for one. So say either 6 broadsides for 345, or two lots of three for 300 (and broadsides are a good example loving cover and having 4+RA meaning small formation size id not much of a prolem). I guess I'd pay the extra if I wanted a good garrison overwatch unit, but otherwise singles all the way, especially if air mobile.
Stealths are another good one - 200 points for a turn 3 or 4 teleport. And so on.
I didn't think the Tau way of war was for small more expendable formations?

I think people int he past have tried a FF4+ list, wonder if they posted bat reps for it.

Being good at FF doesn't immediately put me in mind of operating close tot he enemy - far from it, you want to strike from as far back as possible to minimise harm. Short range shooting on the other hand requires you to be close to try and sustain and kill 'em, or at least and damage them enough that other formations can kill 'em off or you managle them enough that the 5+ armour and skimmers save you from any assaults.

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 21 Nov. 2008, 12:28 )

Being good at FF doesn't immediately put me in mind of operating close to the enemy - far from it, you want to strike from as far back as possible to minimise harm. Short range shooting on the other hand requires you to be close to try and sustain and kill 'em, or at least and damage them enough that other formations can kill 'em off or you managle them enough that the 5+ armour and skimmers save you from any assaults.

Which is exactly the way Tau work in 40k4e/5e.  They dance close to the flames a lot, and do get burned on occasion.  The overall feel is the same, even if some of the details make you scratch your head.  

Sadly enough, if I wanted to translate Fire Warriors directly, it'd probably be 2x 30cm AP5+ and FF5+ with an extra attack (Tau are better than Tactical Marines in FF, almost as good as a Devastator squad, so could even go to FF3+, no extra attack), CC6+.  FW are gross in a firefight, they only fold when you're close enough to stab them.

=====

I'll take a closer look at your list over the Thanksgiving holidays.

An immediate reaction is that I like aligning the formation sizes with FW packaging. This makes life better for those of us trying to figure out how to buy an army without getting shot by our credit managers...

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:55 pm 
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I certainly agree that trying to match pack sizes is a good thing.

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:39 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 21 Nov. 2008, 19:28 )

We do play differently then - the upgrades cost more per stand, so why would I give away an activation advantage with shooting units in an army with co-ord fire?

Because a single casualty eliminates the formations for at least a turn?  

If I was doing "popcorn" with a Tau list, I wouldn't take any (or very little) co-ordinated fire so I could maintain an activation advantage; having 15 activations that you're using in five groups of three, gives the activation advantage to the enemy, and they'll probably smarten up and start targetting co-ordinated fire units/formations quickly.  I don't see it working that well for long, but I could certainly be wrong!  *laugh*

Perhaps I should reverse it, so that the core formations are more expensive than the upgrades.

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:06 am 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 21 Nov. 2008, 19:04 )

I used to be firmly in the camp of the 4+ FF for FW etc, but I've actually been swung across recently.

You make some very interesting points there, Zombo, definitely going to think about them.

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Please take a look at this battle report and comments: Variant Tau vs Space Marines

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 Post subject: [Tau] A contraversial proposal for change
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:28 am 
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With CyberShadow's promotion of Honda to Shas'El to help assist him with Tau development, I'm going to be putting my "variant" list on indefinite hiatus.

I'm open to questions and comments, but I won't be posting any updates here for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for all the discussions!




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