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Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compendium)

 Post subject: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compendium)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:04 pm 
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PFE200 and RoboShadow were generous enough to provide me with an advanced copy of the Yme-Loc list last Friday night, as I had a couple of games lined up on Saturday.

The list I took is a little flawed, but I was away from home (only a cheeky 3750 km) and had to use what I brought with me. Luckily, when I travel I take lots of EoVs and Titans to save on space.

ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [500]
2 Scorpion, Bonesinger

ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [450]
2 Scorpion

ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [250]
Scorpion

ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [250]
Cobra

ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [250]
Cobra

WARLOCK TITAN [850]

YME-LOC WIND RIDER TROUPE [200]
6 Vyper

ASPECT WARRIOR TROUPE [250]
6 Shining Spear, Exarch

I did take photos, but for some reason they’re all corrupted files. Me and technology…..

I played two games, the first against Vanilla Space Marines.

Tactical + Hunter
Tactical + Hunter
Devastator + Hunter
Landraider
Landspeeder (Typhoons)
Landspeeder
Bikes
Bikes
Whirlwind
Terminator (SC and BTS)

Perspective: left and right is as I saw it from my side of the board.

Objectives:

SM - Blitz in the right corner, T&H almost on center line in the middle and second on my right.

Eldar Blitz center, both T&H on far left.

Deployment

Space Marine - Whirlwind (on Blitz) and with Landspeeder and Bike close by. Typhoon, Bike and both Tactical Formations in center. Devastator and Landraider to the left.

Elder - Shining Spear, Scorpion and Warlock to the right in cover. Scorpion formation and Vyper in the center behind a hill. Both Cobras and the Scorpion Formation with SC to the far left.

Turn 1. SM win initiative. Both Bike formations and the Landspeeder double/tripled up on the right flank. Devastators doubled up on the left towards the T&Hs, whilst the Landraiders failed to activate after taking some love from the Scorpions. Both Tactical Formations and Typhoons pushed down the center and started beating up on a Scorpion Formation that had moved up. Cobras pushed up on the left and killed off some devastators whilst the second Scorpion Formation stayed deep and picked off Landraiders and Rhinos (MW killing most of their passengers!). Shining Spears pushed down right flank with the Warlock. The Warlock wiped out a bike formation that had strayed too far forward.

Turn 2. SM teleport terminators in on the left flank near my blitz (unguarded). SM won initiative. Terminators engaged Scorpion (Supreme Commander) killing one Scorpion and breaking the formation, losing two terminators in return (unlucky) who consolidated towards my blitz. SM retained and engaged the Shining Spears with Landspeeder and lost (broken). Landspeeder fled to be close to the Whirlwinds and the Shining spears consolidated towards them as well. A Cobra sustained and killed off most the devastators breaking the formation. Warlock retained and engaged bikes, wiped them out and consolidated almost onto of the broken Landspeeder. Shining Spears retain again (SC reroll) and engaged the Whirlwinds, calling intermingled with the Landspeeders and supported by the Warlock, wiping them all out. The rest of both armies started getting stuck in at close range and killing/breaking each other on the left.

Turn 3. SM win initiative. Landraiders tried to kill a Cobra contesting a T&H with one DC left and failed. The Cobra returned the favor and whilst sustaining, failed to hit anything! The rest of the turn involved the remaining forces on the left/center jockeying around trying to capture/contest objectives and breaking each other, whilst the Warlock seized the Blitz objective. I also finally killed off the Terminators (BTS) by throwing an enormous amount of firepower at them. In the end I held one of my T&H objectives (and Blitz) and SM no objectives.

Eldar Win 3-0. Objectives - BTS, Blitz and T&H. SM - Nil.

Conclusion - This was actually a pretty close game. The SM player had intended to feed the Warlock and Shining Spears low cost Bike and Landspeeder formations hoping to keep them over on my right flank and slow them down enough that they wouldn’t reach the Blitz, whilst he tried to gain enough objectives in the center and left to win the game. He almost succeeded… but a few errors on the left flank (pushing a Bike formation too far forward on turn 1 and assaulting the Shining Spears turn 2), the failure of the Landraiders to kill off a Cobra holding one of my T&H, and me pouring in huge amounts of fire to keep formations off my Blitz cost him. If a few dice had of fallen the other way it probably would have gone to turn four. This would have seen my Warlock and Shining Spears too far away to influence anything and a bunch of my really badly beaten up formations on the left madly trying to avoid being killed and broken whilst contesting objectives.

Thoughts - a really tough match up for the Space Marines. I think my opponent got a little tired of hearing the words: TK, MW and Lance….. I tried to use my Scorpion formations a lot more aggressively then I usually do and they paid a hefty price for it. 5+ RA just doesn’t quite cut it, and 5+ FF is nothing to write home about when SM are more then happy to FF. 75cm range on the Scorpion is great, but when you have to push forward with them to contest objectives, support assaults, block manoeuvre corridors, ect, it doesn’t count for anything. I’m used to keeping them back and popping up and sniping…. where they're safe… I also wanted to see how single Cobras went, and I’m still of a mixed opinion. 2BP at 30cm is not that flash, although IC helps. I got really lucky with both of them as one didn’t have to move after turn 1, the second after turn 2, and the SM player kept feeding them targets into the FxF arc which made it easy to sustain. I might persist a little longer, but back to using them in pairs is best methinks.

As a final thought, it was a completely different gaming experience to other Eldar armies (for me) because the Warhost Formations (and a bulk of the army) are 25cm speed rather then 35cm speed. I know this doesn’t sound like much, but so many times I found myself grasping for that extra 10cm whether it be for engagement range, weapon threat range and grabbing objectives late game. I didn’t realise how much I relied on the crutch that is ‘35cm speed’…. Also, although I was down on activation's and a bit worried about that at the start; teleporting Terminators being held off board, some unlucky (or lucky for me, depends on your perspective) failed activation's, and bike and Landspeeder Formations evaporating when looked at by the Warlock balanced it up.

Outstanding opponent who had a beautiful marine army with a quartered (yes even the individual marines!) Howling Griffon paint job. Absolute pleasure to play. His plan to deal with my Warlock Titan almost worked for him…. which was great, because it so often seems the plan is ‘run away and ignore it’!

Comments from the Super Coaches?


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:06 am 
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Thanks writing the report up.. :) :)

Looks like it was close game and want i can gather enjoyable one..

So may I ask if you had taken a Phantom, with two Titan Pulsar and then taken more singles EoV warhost, which would have given you 12 activation's, do you think it would have made a differences to the game/s?

Looking forward to the write up on the Tau..

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:30 am 
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Hi Gunslinger9

Indeed a close game and really good to read.

Thanks for the battle report, much appreciate mate.

Regards
Trent

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Hi all and a really interesting read. I suspect the Eldar might have had a much easier time of things if they had really tried to spam stuff. Consider the following:-

850 Warlock
250 Scorpion
250 Scorpion
250 Scorpion
250 Scorpion
250 Scorpion
250 Storm Serpent
250 Storm Serpent
100 Guardian
100 Guardian
100 Guardian
100 Guardian

The Scorpions plink from the rear and control the objectives in the Eldar table half while the Warlock doubles everywhere, accompanied by the Storm Serpents, and 'supports' the assaults by the Guardians.

This is just a 'gash' list to illustrate how you could spam the proposed list - it becomes much worse if the Warlock is replaced by other formations, especially with multiple Void Spinners rather than Scorpions, since Disrupt will break more formations which under these circumstances becomes more deadly to all but Fearless opponents like the Necrons - which I believe to be OTT anyway ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Ok, to be more serious, driving towards a WE list is a fair call IMHO. But if this is the case, then I think we need more focus on that objective.

We really must mount both the Guardians and Aspects to prevent ludicrous amounts of spam as I just demonstrated, and include the Farseer in the formation rather than as an upgrade. Take the formation make-up and price from the E-UK version of the list as a starting point which we can adjust as required. Doing this also removes the need for Vampires (even though it is a WE), since it cannot transport anything.

However Storm Serpents are still viable, LVs and units with Walker can still use them (Hornets, War walkers, jetbikes), while AVs can come in through the larger SpiritGate allowing the mounted troops further access if needed.

Void Spinners should be removed despite the quoted 'fluff', or at least restricted to 0-1 per army we really feel they are a 'must'. These are too easily spammed and become too potent in large numbers.

Having Titans as 'Warhosts' is obviously intended to allow the creation of an all-titan army. Perhaps we could allow 0-1 Revenant for 375 if this works under testing - though perhaps an option for a later version of the list.

Doing the above tones down the obvious spammable areas while presenting the player with slightly harder choices when creating the list - Titans vs AA vs 'gate assaults vs shooty etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:46 pm 
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Greg

As I said it was a bit of a flawed list, but the Warlock was crucial in it. It gave me farsight (triple retain), and an ‘engagement’ formation. I’m quite fond of Phantoms with twin pulsars. I’ll often use one and hang around my Blitz with it. Great Blitz guard, great BTS, enough range to effect the table from there with sniping, solid ground based AA in the rear area and a tough formation to engage. If I put it in this list, I’d like to replace other EoVs with ‘engagement’ formations - Aspects, Guardians and put in a farseer somewhere.

I usually don’t mind single EoVs, particularly Scorpions sitting at the back sniping, and pushing forward to mid table once the ground has been cleared. However, in this list, I think you’re going to have to use EoVs to clear that ground for themselves - and I don’t think single EoVs are up for the task.

I haven’t finished writing it up yet, but in the second game with Tau, that player used ‘Co-ordinated Fire’ to great effect to break single EoV formations in one activation. He won initiative turn one, activated three units with Co-ordinated fire and although I think he needed 7s to hit (and didn’t hit), he just placed the three blast markers for coming under fire and broke the formation. Then he retained and did the same thing to another single EoV...very cunning.... :D

Sure, that’s a Tau ‘thing’ and not achievable with other armies with two activations! But it is doable over a number of activations. A 3 DC Warengine is hardier then a 3 unit formation, but only just. Because of this, I think using single EoVs to increase your activation count has a limit. Maybe it's just like a flood though and there will be too many of them to deal with adequately?

If I was to drop the Warlock, I think I’d take an EoV formation of two Storm Serpents with the Bonesinger and Farseer, two guardian formations with Farseer and three wraithguard and drop the single Scorpion. Maybe then I’d split up both of the Scorpion Formations but keep those scorpions deep and use them in a sniping role, and put the Cobras in a single EoV Formation. I think that’s ten activation's.

Not sure if that even adds up to less the 3000 points, nor am I particularly happy with it. That list would have a bunch of different flaws though as well. Almost no AA, Storm Serpents would be the BTS but also have to be up front getting shot at/engaged, still no scouts…..but I'm just playing theory-machine I suppose.

Maybe place a T&H within 30cm of the opponents Blitz and develop a Main Effort consisting of Storm Serpents and Cobras (with the Vypers and Shining Spears clearing out screens) and aim it at those two objectives? You’d really be telegraphing your intent though and I’m not sure it would work. You’d be relying on four Scorpions to hold your own blitz and objectives, protect your flanks….can’t see it at the moment….I’ll try it out though.

I might spam EoVs next time to check my theory, but I think it would be like having a whole army of 3 unit formations. I just can’t see it working at this stage. I will test though.

Ginger - you're comment has not been ignored. I'll just take some time to put my thoughts together.

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc 4.2 (development) vs Space Marines (2016 Compend
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:56 pm 
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What's stopping you swapping the above "gash list" around, making the guardians hosts and the EoV troupes with a current Eldar list though?

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