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Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Orkybob, you certainly had rotten luck at the worst possible moments. With a few  more successful activation roles, you probably would have won outright with objectives.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:49 pm 
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DS - don't forget Orkybob's Fflyboyz took off every single turn (even with 3 BMs on them!) - they killed my hydraphant without it even killing a grot in return!

He had his share of good luck!

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:08 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Feb. 15 2008,10:49)
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DS - don't forget Orkybob's Fflyboyz took off every single turn (even with 3 BMs on them!) - they killed my hydraphant without it even killing a grot in return!

Good point, I had forgotten about that. However, he did fail some critical activations late in the game, which could have been decisive.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:19 pm 
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I suppose...... :glare:

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:23 am 
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Great battle report! :) Don't think I've seen a draw before, maybe 1...

Any thoughts on the Nid rules/list from this battle?

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orkybob
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:57 am 
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It was a great battle. One of the best I think we have had. The new rules seemed to work well.

I did have some bad luck but more good luck than normal!! Unfortunatly it didn;t hold out into the battle against the BL drop army battle.... And the flyboyz did an excellent job!!
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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:12 pm 
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Feedback on the list......

My overall feeling from this battle is that this is the most balanced version to date of the nid list.

Spawning:

Spawning was simple to understand and did not prove unbalancing. Not being able to spawn when broken and up close to the enemy certainly hurts but it rewards good play of the opponent. I did not take the brood nest as i wanted to play without it this time. The spawn values of armoured bugs are about right in my opinion - you are unlikely to get anything more than a gargoyle or two gaunts back most of the time so spawning is more of a trickle than a flood.

Instinctive and Blast Markers:

Again maybe its because I've played the bugs for a few years now but to me the Markconz variant felt easy to use and balanced. The other players at our little tournament agreed that allowing the bugs to accumulate blast markers and break was a good thing. They also felt that the instinctive rules 'felt' right - bugs should not become supressed and although having blast markers weakens their assaults somewhat compared to earlier versions of the list, having the rule about them never couting as having 'more' blast markers goes someway to balancing this out.

Voracious:

This fits nicely with the fluff for nids - they get up the field really well when fresh and will pretty much always enter into an assault when you want them too. It works for me. Does voracious limit the army into becomming a rush and assualt list? Very possibly. Is this a bad thing? Absolutely not!! :)

Auto-Rally:

At first I think this shocked Orkbob - "Let me see those rules!". However without any Leaders in the army the bugs will rarely clear ALL their blast markers. At first I thought this would annoy me - especially as I watched the Nobz time and again clear all the blast markers from the warbands I was facing. But actually its not as bad as you might think. If you focus on assaulting then sure you are going to miss out on a bonus but getting the bonus +1 to activate when assaulting combined with never counting as having more blast markers than your enemy means that assaults still work as they should.

Brood Unids and Broods:

I must confess that at first this was the part of the Markconz variant I liked the least. Compared to earlier versions of the list the fixed broods felt limiting and overly restrictive. For instance - I only have 2 biovore stands but 1 need 3 if I want to field them with this list or proxy a stand (I'm not a proxy fan I hasten to add).

Personally I would prefer the list to allow more flexibility. I think this could easily be done without altering the balance of the list in any way. For instance - the Heavy Support Brood - the list states for 100 points I can take either 3 biovores OR 3 zoanthropes OR 3 Carnifex. I know you like your 3's but why can't I take say 2 biovores and 1 Carnifex? or 1 of each?

Again with the Assault Spawn Brood - I might prefer to take 1 Malefactor and 2 Haruspex.

Keep it so that you have to take 3 but allow players to mix and match a little.

Bio-Titans:

I REALLY like the stats and the points on these - but the Ork Flyboyz did a number on my Hydraphant so I didn't get to see the monster in action! I took a 2-claw version and was REALLY looking forward to getting to grips with the stompamob!! Next time. :)

Nexus:

I was intrigued by the idea of a 2 Tyrant-led swarm so took one. 2d3 spawning meant I was likely to get at least one AV bug back per end phase and so I beefed up the swarm with 6 haruspex and 3 malefactors. They worked really well - in fact for me they were my star formation. Expensive but deadly!

Lictors:

Sigh - they were crap again. Once again the threat was greater than the reality. They prevented one sustained fire and made little impact for the 300 points I spent on them. With hindsight perhaps I should have taken just one slightly larger swarm but you live and learn.

The loss of the MW extra attack hurt me badly as I landed 4 first strike hits on the Big Blitz Brigade and failed to destroy a single vehicle!!

I liked them better with the MW attack and without the reinforced armour. I will however not make any claims to know how they should be represented compared to 40K as I've not played 40K for about 15 years!

Hormagaunt and their 3+ CC attack:

Yes! Keep it. Finally they are worth taking again.

Disposable:

Again - keep it.

So then overall? Good job Markconz! I went for this variant because to me it seemed to strike a nice balance between special rules and unit stats. Some small changes have made the army a very strong assault army - which is exactly what we have been after.

I would strongly urge anyone abot to have a battle with their bugs to give this variant a try. For heavens sake we had a draw!! It doesn't get much better than that! (Well a win for me would clearly have been better but you know what I mean!)  :D

Oh and just to note that the version I downloaded had a limit of 1 uncommon brood per common brood rather than 1 uncommon per 2 common. Markconz - keep it as 1 per 1 ..........please!

Right off to watch Man U vs Arsenal ....

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:34 am 
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Interesting - great thanks for the feedback Lightbringer! :)

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Dave
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:43 am 
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(Lightbringer @ Feb. 16 2008,12:12)
QUOTE
Brood Unids and Broods:

I must confess that at first this was the part of the Markconz variant I liked the least. Compared to earlier versions of the list the fixed broods felt limiting and overly restrictive. For instance - I only have 2 biovore stands but 1 need 3 if I want to field them with this list or proxy a stand (I'm not a proxy fan I hasten to add).

Personally I would prefer the list to allow more flexibility. I think this could easily be done without altering the balance of the list in any way. For instance - the Heavy Support Brood - the list states for 100 points I can take either 3 biovores OR 3 zoanthropes OR 3 Carnifex. I know you like your 3's but why can't I take say 2 biovores and 1 Carnifex? or 1 of each?

I'm in agreement with you there. I liked it a lot better when Uncommon creatures could be purchased individually.  I am fine with the lesser creatures being purchased by the flock/cluster now, but purchasing the uncommons this way I find restricting as well.  Especially given that they have to be assigned all together to one synapse group.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:11 am 
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(Dave @ Feb. 16 2008,23:43)
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I am fine with the lesser creatures being purchased by the flock/cluster now, but purchasing the uncommons this way I find restricting as well. ?Especially given that they have to be assigned all together to one synapse group.

Maybe the wording isn't clear, or wasn't changed, but you are supposed to be able to "break up" flocks/clutches when creating swarms at the beginning of the game.

I'll have to review the "variants" to see if that's explicit in them.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:19 am 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 16 2008,23:11)
QUOTE

(Dave @ Feb. 16 2008,23:43)
QUOTE
I am fine with the lesser creatures being purchased by the flock/cluster now, but purchasing the uncommons this way I find restricting as well.  Especially given that they have to be assigned all together to one synapse group.

Maybe the wording isn't clear, or wasn't changed, but you are supposed to be able to "break up" flocks/clutches when creating swarms at the beginning of the game.

I'll have to review the "variants" to see if that's explicit in them.

Mmm somewhat confused on this point. IIRC orginally breaking up swarms was not allowed but then we had a discussion and maybe agreed verbally they could(?). However, I'm not sure whether this made it into the various rule sets. I didn't make the change because I thought it might be better to force the original no-break up until it was more clear whether or not this was a good idea. In particular I think allowing min-maxing of dactylis is problematic. Maybe they are best suited going to independent.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:54 am 
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(Dave @ Feb. 16 2008,23:43)
QUOTE
I'm in agreement with you there. I liked it a lot better when Uncommon creatures could be purchased individually. ?I am fine with the lesser creatures being purchased by the flock/cluster now, but purchasing the uncommons this way I find restricting as well. ?Especially given that they have to be assigned all together to one synapse group.

If we are going for a 1 (or 2) uncommon per common brood cluster/flcok/pack.  Then we have to keep the uncommons in groups as well.  Otherwise buying 4 tands of gaunts will allow you to have 1 fex or biovore.

I am not that bothered by being unable to break up clusters into smaller sections.  I normally group them all together in very specific swarms (such as my 12 strong fex swarm from my last battle rep).

The one bit I would prefer broken up is the biovores from the exocrines and dactylisii

The vores are close support creatures and shouldn't be lumped with the long ranged firepower.

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Dave
 Post subject: Batrep 2.7K Orks vs Nids 8.4 Markonz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:57 pm 
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(ragnarok @ Feb. 17 2008,04:54)
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If we are going for a 1 (or 2) uncommon per common brood cluster/flcok/pack.  Then we have to keep the uncommons in groups as well.  Otherwise buying 4 tands of gaunts will allow you to have 1 fex or biovore.

I am not that bothered by being unable to break up clusters into smaller sections.  I normally group them all together in very specific swarms (such as my 12 strong fex swarm from my last battle rep).

The one bit I would prefer broken up is the biovores from the exocrines and dactylisii

The vores are close support creatures and shouldn't be lumped with the long ranged firepower.

My solution to that was to limit the points spent on uncommon brood creatures to be less than the points spent on common brood groups.

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