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2017 - Ork Review

 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:17 am 
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Perhaps orkeosaurus should get a point bump or a dc reduction or both, the spammable 300 pt 'wildboys in a dino for 300 points when it is dc6 reinforced' unit is a bit rough to face.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:10 am 
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I heard about Heavy Bolter. Second tournament where Feral Orks lists have beaten most of the competition.

I agree. The Orkasaurus is a bit low priced for what you get. You can min/max the list, and get some really cheap powerhouse formations that literally steam roll the enemy and destroy them in engagements. Only formations like Wraithguard/Wraithlords, Talos, or similar fearless walker vehicles /infantry that have CC MW, and the numbers to destroy an orkasaurus are likely to work, and these will be ganged up on by multiple formations of Orkasaurus, and your best weapons are gone.

If their DC were reduced to 4, or their points increased to 250 points, this would make them either less potent, or less able to min/ max so many kill star formations, and you would have fewer boarboyz formations as support.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 pm 
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I think Orkeasaurus are absolutely fine. They're terrifying if you put yourself in a position for them to get into close assault but that can be mitigated against. Last time I played them I was wrecking them in assaults with just bezerker cos. BMs+Inspiring+outnumber and staying exactly 15cm away for the win and often death through combat res. The time before that I played them with Krieg and the Saurus are virtually useless you just sit more than 22cm away with mounted up gorgons and if you go first absolutely smash them (that plus shadowswords).

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Yes they are vulnerable to being firefighted. They will only do 2 hits on average (or 2.66 if Nobz help out). Their shooting is rubbish too. So dodge them, put a BM on them and clip them.

That it is hard to win with and against Feral Orks has been the main problem with them. Too slow, esp with corner deployment, so maybe speeding them up but weakening the orkeosaruses would result in a more interesting list to play with and against.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:19 am 
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I wish Warbands didn't suck so much. For what is supposedly meant to be the mainstay of an Ork army all they're really good for is babysitting objectives. Offensively I've found that with the unfortunate combination of being stuck Doubling to move, a FF 6+ and only a 15cm engage move they just get brutalized by pretty much anything with a FF value.

I took 4 to a tourney recently and they fell flat on their faces. Between Decimators, Flamers, hell even Termagants and Squat Berzerkers were kicking the snot out of me in FF....

Why oh why must we be stuck with post-3rd ed (40k) orks as a benchmark? 2nd ed Orks weren't any worse at shooting than Guardsmen. Better even, as we had Boltguns and Bolt Pistols!

Spamming Kults of Speed and Zzap Brigades doesn't make an Ork army "Orky" in my opinion but the Boyz just get battered by clipping FF assaults


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:30 am 
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flyingthruwater wrote:
I wish Warbands didn't suck so much. For what is supposedly meant to be the mainstay of an Ork army all they're really good for is babysitting objectives. Offensively I've found that with the unfortunate combination of being stuck Doubling to move, a FF 6+ and only a 15cm engage move they just get brutalized by pretty much anything with a FF value.

I took 4 to a tourney recently and they fell flat on their faces. Between Decimators, Flamers, hell even Termagants and Squat Berzerkers were kicking the snot out of me in FF....

Why oh why must we be stuck with post-3rd ed (40k) orks as a benchmark? 2nd ed Orks weren't any worse at shooting than Guardsmen. Better even, as we had Boltguns and Bolt Pistols!

Spamming Kults of Speed and Zzap Brigades doesn't make an Ork army "Orky" in my opinion but the Boyz just get battered by clipping FF assaults


Do you have any suggestions for changes then?

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:26 am 
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I'm not sure how much play there would be in tweaking. Maybe just give the Boyz (just the Boyz) FF5+ to take into account their "Shootas". Means that it's not so much of a waste of time rolling their FF attacks and means they might be able to support another assault with FF.

If Squat Berzerkers get FF5+ with their Bolt Pistols I can't see why they would out-shoot us. We'd still be vulnerable to clipping and everything else but we'd maybe have a bit more of an offense. At the tourney everyone knew that they were pretty safe as long as they were 15cm+ away from the warbands.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:15 am 
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Markconz wrote:
Yes they are vulnerable to being firefighted. They will only do 2 hits on average (or 2.66 if Nobz help out). Their shooting is rubbish too. So dodge them, put a BM on them and clip them.

That it is hard to win with and against Feral Orks has been the main problem with them. Too slow, esp with corner deployment, so maybe speeding them up but weakening the orkeosaruses would result in a more interesting list to play with and against.


Agree on the draw point - Dan1314 has started calling my brother the curtain due to the fact he almost always draws with ferals.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:01 pm 
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The Ork boyz statline kinda assumes an amalgam of shooty Orks (CC5+ FF5+, 30cm ranged attack) and CCW/pistol Orks (CC3+ FF6+) IMO. The actual EA "boyz" unit is an abstracted amalgam of a squinty version of the average effectiveness of them both, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:56 pm 
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If nothing is done with them though they're relegated to objective sitting. The chances of them actually getting to use their 4+ CC is next to nil with their 15cm charge. Their 6+/6+ shooting attack is rarely worth more than a BM.

Personally I'd probably take away their shooting attack for a boost in FF. The Nobz could still provide the BM at 30cms like the Command stand does in a Krieg company.

It just seems a shame to leave the Warbands near worthless without a Landa. I don't want them to be killer or anything, just for them to maybe kill stuff once in a while instead of everyone engaging them at 6cms range and wrecking orkface.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:09 pm 
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I love warbands in a battlefortress with an oddboy, the shield means you can leave them mounted up in relative safety then you get an effective engage range of 39cm (if using 40mm strip bases)

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:35 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I love warbands in a battlefortress with an oddboy, the shield means you can leave them mounted up in relative safety then you get an effective engage range of 39cm (if using 40mm strip bases)


Shield?? :eh

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:21 am 
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I do not think of myself as any kind of expert here, just throwing some thoughts into the discussion based on earlier posts.

- As far as Feral WEs are concerned, if you nerf/cost hike them, the list might as well not exist. Slow and big is their very character and advantage (as they lack basically every special rule/unit that most other armies can employ).

- Spamming Wildboyz and Dinos is very one dimensional, it seems pretty inflexible and very vulnerable to FF engagements. I would deal with an Orkeosaurus as I would deal with two Gorgons and 20 Krieg infantry stands - set up favorable FF engagements with support. Mainly as FF engagements are easier to arrange. I like to call it "Big game hunting". The defending (and prepped) Orks' FF will be poor and the Orkeosaurus can't soak up all the hits. It's not fearless, so it can die due to hack downs. If you have a swarm army like Tyranids, get 12 gaunts into it so the troops inside can't get out. If the transported infantry are disembarked, hit them with arty templates - their armor is crap. Also, plenty of army lists have MW/TK/Lance goodies to help them deal with any WE.

- Ferals are slow, the opponent's Blitz will usually be relatively safe and the opponent can spread out their T&H objectives at the far edges of the board to make life harder for the Ferals.

- Orks do suck at FF, no matter which army list you use. But in my experience prepped and supported FF engagements (including glorious bullet catching Grots) have knocked out Terminator formations, Errant Knight formations and one time dropped half of the starting DC off of a Tau Manta to get half VP in the final turn. If enough dice are rolled...

It may be Orky to use a lot of Warbands, but the firepower of the regular Ork list is impressive. Try to integrate boys with Gunwagons/Battlefortresses (as they're all transports) for speed, shooting and some armor. Oddboys and Super-stompas are fantastic sources of MW/TK goodness which scares the hell out of any Marine army.

- Lastly, I have seen reports of players power-gaming lists at several tourneys (mainly Squats IIRC). For a friendly game, my meta would give that player a good natured ration of crap while happily playing the game. But for a tourney, players should have the good taste not to break army lists.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:41 am 
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Markconz wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
I love warbands in a battlefortress with an oddboy, the shield means you can leave them mounted up in relative safety then you get an effective engage range of 39cm (if using 40mm strip bases)


Shield?? :eh


Yeah in the EUK list an oddboy in a battlefort adds D3+1 power fields, as flyingthruwatet is UK based I thought it was relevant to him

I'd also add that the powerfield upgrade is a really good one and would recommend NetEA adopting it to make battleforts actually useful ;)

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Ork Review
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Powerfield upgrade sounds cool


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