It was biel tan. Your point being? Totally op list again? Everything is down to powercreep? Not maybe bad skill sometimes when considering none in your club can beat this list? Honestly it doesn't make sense.

Also could you please elaborate how precisely losing a weapon in exchange for boiler is powercreep or zerging as you put it? Much appriciated, thank you.

The zerging wasnt directed at you else you would have been quoted obviously.

Some lists are prone to Loss ie Eldar vs Ork gargants I would expect Orks to lose, not by much but a loss. That then freshens your mind as to what to bring next time you face Eldar, not to have the Army list enjoy point reductions further in which to add more units to counter them.

But all I have seen is ' you lost?' 'heres a point reduction' or 'heres an army rule that frees up more points for you', not bearing in mind that he forgot he rallied on a 2+. What would be great to see is all of the Ork Gargant player who keep endorsing the zerg, go up against your list in sat SL or nid sand see how you fair.

i agree. we should have that match up in the last version published. I've got plenty of worries about this list too.
HOWEVER
Allow me to retort [Samuel L Jackson voice ] that most I've seen is you here on TacComs is complaining without providing a single bat rep and using (incorrectly I might add) an unhelpful and purposely antagonistic phrase "zerg". Perhaps you're not intending it as such but it's really not helping.

So everyone, let's cool down, let's roll back in time and can you give a read to my post above? Like I've said, I really want you to get integrated here and posting your reports because I honestly believe you've got valuable insight to give. But you've GOT to start documenting it. k?

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And to lighten the mood playfully I feel obliged to meme

"Say 'zerg' again. Say 'zerg' again, I dare you, I double dare you nidhumper, say zerg one more Goddamn time!'

had to be done

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Junkstar,

Allright i start to take personal offence.

This is just silly.

Nope: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zerging

what would convince you otherwise? seriously what would we have to demonstrate to convince you that this list is not an uberpowered top tier list which can destroy anything?

I have posted (admittedly short) batreps against Biel-Tan, 1k sons and red corsairs, all losses, pretty comprehensive ones at that, my win was against a saim-hann army that the guy hadn't played in several years and also knew nothing about the gargant list or weapons, the other was a points victory to me against eldar.... hardly a stellar record of crushing victory after crushing victory....

every tactic you would use against AMTL is valid against OGBM, hide, pick off fragile formations, screen with scouts, CROSSFIRE, keep the big stuff blast markered, spread objectives, break/kill the big stuff by ganging up on it....

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I fear the boilers, with no drawback, and even getting additional FF attacks might be too much. The whole point of the boilers is to get the Big Bots

a. into Firefight distance (either supporting fire or engagement)

or

b. far across the table

IF the idea of GrafSpee gets implemented I would vote for higher pts. Otherwise its a Win/Win choice, the loss of a weapon ain't hurting as you want more FF attacks anyway (like Reavers with lasburners)

I also see the problem with the movement, by turn three and doubling you could at most move 90cm (15cm times two times three), which is technically not enough to reach the blitz - as you have to setup within 15cm - and the table usually has a width of 120cm. For reaching the Blitz there is actually at least one millimeter missing, per math. And this is not including Zone of Control or terrain. But on the other hand: Thats not the "job" of this list. Its not getting the biggest, baddest War Engines to the Blitz and should not be made possible by some artificial rules, where there is always a slight discontent from the enemy to be expected. At least from my point of view.

Another idea: Super Stompas with default 20cm (or 25cm) but reduced armor (eg. 5+, RA). At the same cost es the regular one. You get a dedicated, fast, fairly sturdy Ork-Warhound. Its not that sturdy as its Imperial Counterpart (due to the missing Void Shields) but is still pretty deadly due to weaponry and the added DC (so +1 dice in engagements). You could even drop the Loota Warbands who, to be frank, don't fit the theme at all.
Be wary that this could be exploited very easy though, regarding weapon choice or spamming them.

I am just throwing ideas around.

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I have to disagree about the loota warbands not fitting the theme, they literally follow gargants around collecting all the scrap metal that the war engines create (or become)

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the boilers do have a drawback, they can damage the gargants... it happened multiple times in my last game

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I like the idea of lootas thematically, but should they get all (or almost all) of the the Ghaz ork upgrades? could drop flak, koptas, odd boyz, etc from them and still have the loota theme, while keeping the customisation focus on the big fellas.

(caveat: i have never used or faced the list, above i just a thought from scrolling through the list )

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Not enough (in my opinion, natch). Even doubling all three turns, and using the special rule for each and every move still only gives six chances for the one-in-six chance to come up.

I was honestly surprised to see this was a free upgrade to all gargants, I'd just assumed it was an upgrade that cost points and used up the upgrade slot that could otherwise be used for something like extra powerfields or Damage Capacity etc.

If the die roll is to determine if the boiler is pushed too hard, how about applying a critical hit on failure; normally being set on fire. Fairly thematically appropriate at least.

oh wait i thought that was what it did (I even suggested that too way back when) and was prepping a game using it that way today.
Yeah I'm completely with MikeT on that. Critical hit roll all the way.

The mental image of gangants on fire tear assing across the battlefield is one that makes me squeeeee

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-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

I've been avoiding this discussion for a while because I didn't want Mordoten to feel I was invading his space, but I've had some concerns with the Gargant list in comparison to AMTL just by nature of cost and durability. There are some balancing factors for Gargants like 3+ activations that means you aren't always getting to use them to the fullest, but I'm really not sure it matters. Just looking on from the outside and knowing how the AMTL list plays, here's my thoughts for example, spending 2500 points of a 3k list:

Gargants: 4x Gargants total of ~20+ shields and 32 DC all RA4+
AMTL: 2x Reavers, 1x Warlord total of 14 Shields and 20 DC all RA4+

Now if I arm AMTL with 4x Deathstrikes and give everyone else Volcano cannons or a mix of that and GB to strip shields, I can in theory do 24 DC with the Deathstrikes and 18DC per turn with the Volcano cannons. Effectively this means that I CAN counter a gargant list but to do so I need to completely tailor my list to take nothing but TK weapons. Since I'm effectively trying to kill four Warlord hulls, anything less and the best I can hope for is a draw since I won't have the ability to kill enough gargants to prevent them from sitting on objectives. Again, I haven't played against the Gargants so it might not work out this way, but it does give me pause at the shear amount of firepower needed to handle the list especially given how hard it is for many lists to take down ONE AMTL Warlord in the course of a game.

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