Quote: (nealhunt @ Sep. 24 2009, 15:31 )
When it is the only ranged shot, no.  It's easy to suppress - 1 BM and it's completely gone.  It's shorter range than the Oddboyz, with worse firepower.
Those Nobz have guns too...
| Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/ |
|
| Revisions to the Ork lists http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=16719 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
So, in light of the EpicUK changes, I wanted to see what people's opinions were about including them in the NetEA lists. The variations between the two are pretty minor. -10 points to Fortress costs (all lists) Addition of Power Field Oddboy option for Forts (all lists) -50 points to Kill Krooza (all lists) Kommando Mob (core) No Stompa Mob Big/Uge prices (core) -25 point cost to Wyldboyz warbands (ferals) === My thoughts on them... Fortress costs - okay. I think this is a good middle ground. I'm rather surprised this didn't come up before (or perhaps it did and my swiss cheese memory is kicking in). Powerfield - I don't think this is needed in light of the reduced point cost. Spacecraft costs - okay. Kommando Mob - I like the idea and I am sympathetic to the idea that there is little use for Kommandos in the core army list, but I think with the proliferation of army lists, they will find plenty of use in the variant lists. Big/Uge Stompa Mobz - I really think we should keep these. Wyldboyz - As noted recently in another thread, I was in favor of this for the tourney mods, so I'm definitely in favor of including it. I assume since Tim is in Epic UK, that as AC for the ferals he is on board with this. |
|
| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Yes! (To what Neal says, though I'd include the powerfields as well, just because. Especially the stompa stuff, though with a million stompas I'm not bias.) |
|
| Author: | GlynG [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
I'm all in favour of the points reduction for the forts, wildboyz and spacecraft. No especial opinion on the powerfield option. I like the idea of bigger Stomper mobs that we have at present, while it's nice to have the two list versions similar there's no need to limit our development because they have done or not done something. Is it reasonable to argue Kommanndos are decent in a variant list and therefore it's fine they don't have much use in the main list? Should those who choose not to use a variant list (perhaps because their orks are not themed or painted in the direction of that clan say) be penalised by not having little use for the Kommandos models they have? |
|
| Author: | Chroma [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: (nealhunt @ Sep. 24 2009, 14:10 ) -10 points to Fortress costs (all lists) Agree. Quote: Addition of Power Field Oddboy option for Forts (all lists) Not sure this is applicable to "all lists", as some don't have Oddboyz and OGBM covers this with Big Meks. I really don't think this option is necessary, but if it is implemented, I don't see why it needs to be limited to "Forts" as allowing it to be added to a Gunwagon would make a lesser "Kustom Speedsta" in non-Speed Freeks list.  And I don't see it being abusive in a Gunzmob either. Quote: -50 points to Kill Krooza (all lists) Agreed. Quote: Kommando Mob (core) Save it for alternate lists. Quote: No Stompa Mob Big/Uge prices (core) Disagree.  I think there should be the three sizes of Stompamobs; it's omission is rather glaring in the orginal list. Quote: -25 point cost to Wyldboyz warbands (ferals) Hmmm... the Ferals are always ripe for popcorning.  With this change, seventeen 8-strong formations with 45cm macro weapon doesn't make anyone nervous? |
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: (Chroma @ Sep. 24 2009, 15:14 ) Quote: -25 point cost to Wyldboyz warbands (ferals) Hmmm... the Ferals are always ripe for popcorning.  With this change, seventeen 8-strong formations with 45cm macro weapon doesn't make anyone nervous? When it is the only ranged shot, no. It's easy to suppress - 1 BM and it's completely gone. It's shorter range than the Oddboyz, with worse firepower. |
|
| Author: | Chroma [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: (nealhunt @ Sep. 24 2009, 15:31 ) When it is the only ranged shot, no.  It's easy to suppress - 1 BM and it's completely gone.  It's shorter range than the Oddboyz, with worse firepower. Those Nobz have guns too...
|
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: (Chroma @ Sep. 24 2009, 15:36 ) Those Nobz have guns too...  That's true. I overlooked that. In any case, it still doesn't bother me. It's slow and short ranged and still easy to suppress. The only thing it has going for it in terms of making it a harsh popcorn force is that the formations are decently durable. |
|
| Author: | Tiny-Tim [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
You assume correct Neal, I don't see the need for big and uge stompa mobz, plus I don't like the idea of multiple Supastompas. |
|
| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
I think the Power Field upgrade (if used) should either be cheaper or better, and maybe available generally instead of just to Forts. Other than that, all my opinions mirror Nealhunt's. |
|
| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: (Tiny-Tim @ Sep. 24 2009, 16:18 ) I don't see the need for big and uge stompa mobz, plus I don't like the idea of multiple Supastompas. This is a fair point, but do you think it's any worse than a Uge Steam Gargant Mob? It seems okay to me. I know it's a lot tougher as you go Big. The main weapon is the soopagun and the BP table means that 2 Supastompas don't get anything near 2x firepower. If there's optimal placement, they'll get a bit over 1.5x (better if they are really close). A Big Mob with 2 Supastompas would also cost more than a Great Gargant (950), so that's where it should be compared. It packs more firepower. It's similar in assault until it starts taking casualties. It is a lot more fragile - slightly more DC/units, many fewer shields, vulnerable to crossfire, suppression, clipping assaults and hackdowns, enemy can target AVs or WEs at discretion. A 3 supastompa mob would be 1400 points, meaning it's borderline at GT point levels. It gains relatively little firepower over 2 for those 450 points as well. I can't imagine this would be workable even assuming the game was large enough to accomodate a 1400 point formation. Was it tested to any extent with EpicUK? |
|
| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
If it is a problem couldn't there be 2 entries. The Super Stompa and retinue and the stompa mob sans super stompa? I'm not looking to use multiple or even one Super Stompa. I just want to garrison a couple of big mobs! |
|
| Author: | mnb [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
the three formations of stompas should stay for reasons pointed out by nealhunt. as far as the lower price on forts or the powerfields, i'd go with powerfields. the one thing i miss from the space marine era rules was the wierd units the orcs could field. granted this is not all that wierd but it still reminds me of them. the powerfield should be better though, maybe d3+1 or something. spacecraft, yes ferals, don't know/don't play them kommandos, much as i'd like to play them more, i'd agree w/ keeping them for the variant lists. it would be like IG players wanting to cram the tanks from the minervan list into the core list. must admit though if the voting went the other way on this, i wouldn't complain too much. |
|
| Author: | Tiny-Tim [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
Quote: but TinyTim didn't want to change it back then. True, but time (with testing) changed my mind. Quote: Was it tested to any extent with EpicUK? No, as this formation was not seen as a problem in the UK tournament scene. Whilst this is not a personal favourite of mine several others use this formation with various upgrades and there has been no push for making changes. You can still have as many stompas as you like, you just don’t get a cost benefit. |
|
| Author: | Blish [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Revisions to the Ork lists |
I think the epic uk list is way better then the net epic list. I love the idea of Kommandos being used and the ferals being cheaper. 
|
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|