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Mega Gargant
semajnollissor
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Any hope of sneaking this into the OGBM list in some modified version like the Imperator was in the AMTL list?

It seems to me it would have to be modified so that it would have the same relative power compared to the Imperator as it had in earlier editions - but I'm not familiar enough with those rules to suggest anything. I figure, though, that it ought to cost a bit less than the Imperator... maybe target point cost 1100 and don't allow any Mekboy upgrades (you could say it's as upgraded as it can get).

The biggest problem I see would be creating something with at least the same firepower as a Great Gargant, on a higher DC chassis, for a reasonable point cost. You'd probably have to start by listing all of the weapon systems the MG is supposed to have, then playing with their to-hit/CC/FF values to wind up with something that's balanced.
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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Well, I wasn't thinking that the version listed in the appendix section would be the one in the proper list. The Imperator in the AMTL list is toned down a bit from what the original rulebook stats were (at least, that was my understanding). I figured the same treated for the Mega Gargant would be in order, especially looking down the road.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:40 pm 
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The Imperator in the AMTL list is toned down a bit from what the original rulebook stats were (at least, that was my understanding).


Toned down a *lot*.

18 DC is a monster... 12DC is at least concievably killable. :D

In addition, most of the minor weapons have been abstracted into the FF stat, leaving only the main armaments.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:52 pm 
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IMO toning down the Imperators and the Mega Gargants are big mistakes.  It isn't just a small deviation from the fluff.  It is a huge deviation.  They shouldn't be changed to match tournament size games - these units if none else have their place in massive battles and we should be arming and costing them as such.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:59 pm 
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It is a huge deviation.


In my opinion the E:A collector's stats are the deviation... the original Warlord-to-Emperor Titan damage ratios sat something closer to 8-12 than to 8-18 (I looked it up when I proposed 12DC for the Emperor, and then promptly forgot it. It might have been around 14 actually.).

Additionally, you start to get really wacky things happening with Barrages on really high DC Titans in Epic (9 4+ attacks on an 18DC Emperor, heh), as Epic:A finds what happens if you push the rules further than they were intended to go...

And finally, I may be just spotting patterns where none exist, but did you notice how in Apocalypse the Warlord Titan was changed to 9 DC?

That gives:

3DC - Warhound
6DC - Reaver
9DC - Warlord
12DC - Emperor?

It's almost like GW's thought about it and future proofed their game system, just in case.

Maybe. :)




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Hmmm.  From previous threads I was led to believe that the Imperator was terribly underpriced and undergunned in the EA version.  Where are you deriving your comparison from?

Hena, I agree with you that tournaments are not the place for these beasties.  They are definitely good for large battles or special scenarios.  Because of their size (even at 12DC for the Imperator and ?15DC? for the Mega Gargant) they should have special rules that apply to them - split fire would be one that comes to mind.  Another might be a cap on barrage attacks or other mechanic to deal with them.

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:39 pm 
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If someone wants to have a go at some stats I believe the original armament was something like this:

Deck guns (Probably battlecannons) x 6
Minor turrets (could also be battlecannons though I'm not sure) x5
Big Lobba (barrage)
Deth Ray
Weirdboy Battletower
Krooz Missulz
Soopa Lifta Droppa (my favourite :D just say it: Mmmmh, Soopa Lifta Droppa...:p)
Skullcrusha Megacannon (Bangerz and Klangerz Ammo Barrange and direct fire respectively IIRC)
Krusha Arm
Also I could remember it wrong, but the head might also carry a Gaze of Gork like the Great Gargant.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:21 am 
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Where are you deriving your comparison from?


The Titan Legions rulebook, IIRC, but I also checked other official printed material on the Emperor class Titans when I statted it up.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:15 pm 
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I still have doubts that it's possible to have balanced AMTL/OGBM lists at the lower end of the nominal GT point range because they are so all-or-nothing by nature.  Even in the 3000-3500 range it seems a bit dicey.

I'd prefer to wait and see if the Imperator works out before trying to include a Megagargant in the main OGBM list.  If it were to happen, I think it would need the same kind of "tone down" the Imperator got, both for balance and to stay sort of consistent with the relative power levels the two are supposed to have.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:25 pm 
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All the above seems sensible to me.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Mega Gargant
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Doing a mash-up of the Imperator's weapons stats from the AMTL v3.11 lists onto the Mega-Gargant's weapon's list, along with the bigger gun stats in the OGBM list, I get this:

Type: War Engine
Speed: 15cm
Armour: 4+
CC: 4+
FF: 4+

Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Gaze of Mork 30cm MW4+ TK
Supa Lifta Droppa 45cm MW4+ TK(d6)
Supa-Zzap Gun 60cm MW3+ TK(d3), FxF
2xGrot Guided Missile Unlimited MW3+ TK(d3), one shot, FxF, no LoS req?d

Mega Kannon 75cm 4BP MW, FxF
Mega Lobba 60cm D3+3BP MW, FxF

Gun Deck 45cm 6xAP5+/AT5+ Front Arc
Wyrdboy Tower 45cm 2xMW5+/AA5+ MW

Dakka Turrets (15cm) small arms EA(+2)
Krusha (base) assault weapon TK(d6), EA(+1)

DC 16, d6+6 Power Fields.
Critical Hit Effect: Fires as Great Gargant in rulebook.
Notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Fearless

Compared to the Imperator, it has a bit less TK power at a shorter range, better barrage at the same range (MW vs normal), equivalent FF ability, and better CC ability, but no transport capacity.
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