I threw out this suggestion for a tank inbetween gunwagons and fortresses a while back in the 'Epic Orks are not like 40k Orks' thresd:

Kustum Wagon - 65 pts
Type: AV
Speed: 30cm
Armour: 4+
CC: 4+
FF: 4+
weapons:
2 x twin bigshootas 30cm AP5+/AT6+
Big gun 45cm AP5+/AT5+

Notes: transport (4 + 2 grots)

The points are probably off a bit, but the stats were what was important.

The French ERC answer to the "Gunwagon issue" was to upgrade the Gunwagon armor up to 4+ (with no cost change).

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I like the concept of a Kustom Wagon, but I think the root problem is that without weapons differentiation, a niche like 'tank hunter' no longer exists. The oddboyz bring a new ability to the field - and are used as a result. The stock gunwagon just doesn't have a clear role. It is not a failing in the unit types, but rather in the weapons generalization. A 4+ Armor save would indeed help to differentiate the gunwagon from the buggy.

OTOH, there is the point to be made that Orks should not care who they're krumpin' as long as it's good krumpin.' The generalizaion is perhaps a design feature throughout the list, not just in weapons. As long as they're shootin' they're happy.

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

With that change, are Deth Koptas taken at all in French Ork lists, Flogus?

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maybe 4+ armour and -5 cm speed?

I think gunwagons are ok. The range is useful for a number of reasons.

I take flakwagons, one in almost each formation, they're mainly there to lay a blast marker on incoming aircraft or make aircraft flight path difficult but with little expectation of downing anything much. That's why one in each formation so they're scattered about. Clumped together they're too easy to dodge.

Now you could invent a heavy gunwagon I suppose. A more specialised slower Tankbusta; though you'd need some way to easily distinguish them from the usual gunwagon on the table.

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You're right, Chroma.
I haven't seen any Deth Koptas in the army lists in battle reports (using French ERC lists, or even before the upgrade) I've read on the Epic-Fr forum.

Even if Gunwagons can use a Deth Kopta shield, I have the feeling that's something wrong with the Gunwagon. But my opinion about Orks is fully theorical, as my ork army looks like a pile of unpainted things.

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I remember Bonebreakas as the Orky standard back in the day.  Aside from a slightly better save in SM2, where that meant far less than it does in EA, Lungburstas were handicapped.  I always thought that was why GW put oodles of Bonebreakas in the TL box.

For an armor-heavy list, you could always roll in the Kil Krusha as an 'Eavy Gunwagon.  Given FW's reinvention of Ork tanks, it would be fun to see an Armored Krumpany list.

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WAAARGH!!
The Lost & the Dipped

Well... yeah.  I pointed out the reasons they don't get used with the core list - they don't fit with either warbands or KoS, and the Zzaps overshadow everything in the Blitz Brigades to the point Gunwagons are just BM soaks (and Flakwagons are just AA).

The problem is how they work in the list.  Because of the list, no reasonable change to the unit will make them common.


What happens if you give them better armor like the FrERC?  Zzap brigades get better armor but the firepower effects still make the Zzap arrangement a no-brainer.  The only change might be Zzap brigades with 2x Gunwagonz instead of 2x Flak. They would still add little to Mechanized Warbands or KoS but you might see 1-2 in front for the 4+ saves against the first few AT hits.

Same question for adding AT?  Overall, the army doesn't have trouble facing armor so AT is not a major draw.  In Blitz Brigades Oddboyz will still overshadow Gunwagonz so Zzap Brigades remain the optimal build (again, though, you might see more Zzap-flak-2xgunz).  A couple AT pips doesn't do much for Warbands or KoS so they still won't be there.

Neither option makes a serious change to their prevalence.  Some, maybe, but not enough that they become a prominent feature.

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Neal