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Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=34628		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Cyguns [ Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
I have had this idea ever since the Warhammer 40k Renegade Knights codex came out a few years back.
I don't play 40k , but I loved the look and feel of the Renegade Knights.

I began putting together the different knights found in the codex , but at the time I got derailed by Dark Mechanicum and I made a mix sandbox list with a mishmash of units.

I have now returned to my original idea of a more pure Chaos Knights list, with Daemons to give them
a unique feel from regular knights.

Along that line , I wanted them to be their own faction and have their own feel, and not just be Standard Knights with chaos marks and daemons.
So I've tried to build the Despoilers and Desecrators and the other Renegade knight types to not be
identical to the AdMech knights, trying to stay fairly true to the fluff of them.
To this end I also gave them a twisted version of "Bravery", called "Hatred" that again is similar but not Identical.

I'm also trying a fairly bold approach to give them a unique handicap of sorts.
There's no Supreme Commander on the list, the Chaos Knights are far too chaotic and driven by their own
dark agendas to have that level of organization.
Instead they have Warlords, of witch they may have two.
These dumbed down commanders only allow re-rolls on failed Assaults and doubbles at -1 to the re-roll.
(however no more than one re-roll per turn, as per usual)

All of this can be explored in further detail in the Army list.

This is a first draft, and I'm excited to try these out for my self.

If there's a spark of interest for these Kniggits, please let me know.

Attachments:
EnginesofRuin_Armylist1.3.pdf [838.66 KiB]
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Engines_of_Ruin_Armylist1.2.pdf [937.46 KiB]
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Author:  Cyguns [ Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
We’ve found a copy/paste error from the Acastus who Should be the only knight with Thick reararmour , None of the others should have it.
Author:  uberChris [ Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
Hi Cyguns, I like the look of the list and I happen to own most of the minis for it which is a bonus. At some point I'll try to get in a game with it.

Honestly it doesn't bother me either way, but wouldn't it be more thematic to have Hellblades and Helltalons for aircraft support instead of the Imperial aircraft?
Author:  Cyguns [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
Hi, It would be greatly appreciated to hear some thoughts after play on the list.
And about the thunderbolts , in my mind I’ve pictured Knight houses with allied IG falling into corruption together . And for me it felt strange to have traitor guard and rough riders, and then not accompany that with a correlating airforce. But maybe that’s just me?
Author:  IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
I haven’t looked at the list in depth, but the main idea sounds great, and distinguishes them nicely from the lists with Imperial Knights.

Where I have some concerns is with the characters.

The Chaos Scion Lord for 25pt is adding a good gun, Inspiring, and Augmented Summoning (2d3). In other lists, a Champion of Chaos costs 50pt for Augmented Summoning (2d3), INV save, and a MW Extra Attack. The Scion Lord is considerably more valuable, but costs half the points!

The Warlords have similar issues. The Chaos Warlord in other lists costs the same 50pt as yours, but in the other lists they are replacing a Chaos Lord/Sorcerer character. The Iconoclast one has Augmented Summoning (2d3).

This means that an Iconoclast Household, for 75pt, gets:
2 decent guns with AA,
Inspiring,
Augmented Summoning (4d3) on top of the basic 2d3,
Commander,
Your reduced-power SC rule.

That’s an average summoning roll of twelve, and almost guaranteed odds of getting the eight points required for a Greater Daemon, which is also going to get you double-Inspiring. You can potentially roll sixteen and be able to summon two Greater Daemons at once for triple-Inspiring.

On top of this, your Lesser Daemons are 25pt for 2, instead of the standard 15pt each.

The Traitor Rough Riders can manage similar levels of insane summoning, with a total of 5d3 summoning on a Scout/Garrisoning formation, even if it’s a very fragile formation.

The current list massively outclasses any other list in the game for summoning daemons, and at a lower points investment as well.
Author:  Cyguns [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
We have been play testing it a little now, and I’m beginning to evaluate the summoning parts of the list. At this time I’m considering lowering all 2D3s to 1D3 across the list(including Rough Riders). I’m enjoying the mix of chaos knights and Daemons , but I agree that the characters might be a bit overpowered at the moment considering their pricing. That said, at least in my point of you, it’s not always a matter of isolating a character or formation and compare it to a counterpart on a different list to achieve balance. The way I look at it , formation cost, the size of formations , the list as a whole has to be part of the perspective.
The list is quite high cost. It’s hard to achieve a high number of activations , and formations are at a fairly low blastmarker count.

Also the main reason I put 2 lesser Daemons for 25p , is that I hate ending up with lists costing 2985 or 2995, this is a OCD I may have to try and remedy some other way however xD
One idea I hade was having them at 3 for 50 , landning them slightly higher than 15p at 16.666p

But, maybe keeping it traditional and simple at 15p is the way to go in the end. We’ll see

I appreciate the input tremendously, and will have it with me going into another test run this weekend

In conclusion exactly what you’ve spotted , that currently as all the character combinations come together , it just won’t fly. I,d much rather flip the script, and make it below average in summoning capacity, as I really didn’t want summoning to play a main part but rather be a useful flavor to the list. I’m going to work on some fixes along these lines next week, when I also correct the thick reararmor errors, feel free to drop suggestions on changes
Author:  Cyguns [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
Just to be clear , Scion Lords already sit at 1D3 , so a warlord and a Scion Lord would generate 3D3 + the regular 2D3 , but I’m leaning on giving the Warlord a 1D3 too.

And the same for the Rough Riders, also , at the moment , we think we need to remove the possibility of Daemonic focus for the Rough Riders and other formations , ONLY traitor guard will have access to Daemonic focus
Author:  Cyguns [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
3D sculpted some knights that will go well with this list, or for Chaos looking Knight World :)

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/evil-kniggit-pack

Attachments:
C3834867-C2A9-4B58-AF23-53C4C445FE3C.jpeg
C3834867-C2A9-4B58-AF23-53C4C445FE3C.jpeg [ 1.19 MiB | Viewed 4315 times ]
Author:  IJW Wartrader [ Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
I don’t think it needs to be worse than other lists at summoning, just not massively better. ;-P

Dropping all the summoning characters to 1d3 would get you up to the ‘standard’ maximum of 4d3 but in a nicely different way to other lists. The Lesser Daemon cost isn’t that big an issue, but on top of the rest it stood out!

For Daemonic Focus, don’t forget that all the Greater Daemons have it, so any formation that can get 4d3 to reliably summon a GD is slightly less bothered about access to an Icon Bearer.
Author:  Cyguns [ Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
1.3 is up, ALL augmented summoning is now 1d3, and Aspirant of Chaos no longer has Deamonic Focus. Icon Bearer removed from Iconoclast upgrades.Fixed the Thick Reararmour errors on all DC2 knights.
Author:  uberChris [ Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
Nice work on the list, looking forward to trying it out.

Don't know if this is by design or an oversight, but I noticed that the Icon bearer character doesn't have an Invulnerable save. All of the other Chaos lists (minus the LatD Redux) have that special rule for their Icon Bearers.
Author:  Cyguns [ Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
Aah, I have simply missed putting it up, it should be no different from other Icon Bearers. Now , Traitor Guard are the only ones who has it. Be interesting to se how often they will see action.

And thank you for taking an early interest in the list! It’s going to be invaluable to have more people testing it out.
Author:  uberChris [ Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
I hope to be of help in the coming year Cyguns, as for the Traitor Guard - I have found Deamons to be a great force multiplier so it will make the guard formations a more attractive option.

Might I suggest that the War Dog Thermal Spear weapon have the note "and 15cm Small Arms MW" added to it's stat line? It's a melta weapon, along the lines of the Land Speeder and the Knight Errant.
Author:  Cyguns [ Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Chaos Knights; Engines of Ruin
It’s a fair suggestion, I’ll make a note to add that next upload
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