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[EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2

 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:36 am 
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MikeT wrote:
Doomwing costing was inherited from the original Stigmatus Coven list, though they do seem rather expensive, especially compared to something like the Helltalon bombers, which I would say overall are (slightly) better, yet substantially cheaper.


Assuming you meant Firelord, not Doomwing. Any chance they can change then? As I said just making them cheaper for multiples would be a great start. It's a great model and I'd like to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:39 am 
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GlynG wrote:

Maybe the Doomwing could go up to 30cm range for it's weapon like in the Epic-UK TS list? They've altered Fire Lords cost and made them cheaper too. I'm strongly opposed to their change of making their bombs BP2 rather than D3 BP though - Tzeentch is the god of change and randomness and random elements like this in the list are highly appropriate.

I keep bringing it up occasionally but please, please consider giving the Chaos Altar the option of a split profile choice just like a Daemon Prince can have - with slow and tough armour or fast but weaker armour. Chaos Altars are extremely thematic (I have beautiful extensively converted altars for each god that really show off what the god stands for and the mutated weirdness of chaos, much more than infantry can at this scale) and I always take one per chaos god I'm fielding in the game for modelling and theme reasons, not wanting to use Hydras at all. Unfortunately they're so slow and can't garrison so you're left with many expensive slow formations and limited tactical choices, particularly when using 4 altars in a 3k game as I often would. The end result is in practice I simply choose to play other armies instead while my LATD kick their heels unused on the shelf. If they had an alternate option of dropping to a 5+ Reinforced version in exchange for a 25cm move that would be fantastic as they could also be used with mechanised formations. They'd slow them down a bit, so be a trade off - like adding a Land Raider to a Tactical formation. I can definitely imagine some chaos factions - Slaanesh and Tzeentch in particular - building faster, lighter altars compared to the others and there's no inherent reason why a large altar needs to be slow, there are plenty of ways they could be made fast using technology and/or chaos weirdness. As it would be an alternate optional choice it would add the option for those that chose to use it, while not effecting existing peoples lists if they don't want to. I'd definitely playtest this and the list a lot (6+ battle reports) if you were to trial it.


I completely agree with all of this.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:29 am 
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What about the technicals? Tried them?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:12 am 
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Nitpick wrote:
What about the technicals? Tried them?


You mean instead of the Altar?


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Yes. Perhaps. Nothing stopping you from taking both, I suppose.

Most AA seem not for actually shooting space marines down pre landing anyway - more for placing blasts and annoy. I just think it might seem a bit of a wonder-unit for our adversaries - such good AA moving at high speed?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:17 am 
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Yeah I only ever run one chaos altar. So I used to put a Hydra in every other coven and now have been putting two technicals.

I'm not sure that increasing the speed is going to make a massive difference to its anti air abilities.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:44 am 
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MikeT: Any thoughts on improving the aircraft at all? yes? no? maybe? never?

After taking a close look at the EpicUK Thousand Son list I'm totally in favour of adopting their stats and cost for the Doomwing and the Firelord. But I agree with GlynG that the Firelord bombs would be better to be kept at D3BP rather than 2 BP.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:18 am 
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To be honest, I wouldn't use aircraft. Seems to detract from the rabble uprising feel. :-) so no opinions on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Firelords: They do appear overcosted. Lemme jimmy them into a cost structure closer to the Helltalon. Deffinetly keep the D3 barrage though.

DoomWings: I'd be fine with increasing their range to 30cm (I use them with this range a lot outside of LatD testing and haven't had any issues). This may be stepping into different stats across different lists though, which might cause issues.

I do feel the Khorne Daemon Engines are fairly lacklustre, and had considered a numbers upgrade to help them, possibly along with a price drop for the initial 4. Not sure about the +1 to engage as there should be less need in this list (having a more varied selection of formation types) but we can certainly try it.

Various typos pointed out will be corrected for V0.3 (thanks for the proofreading)

Regarding the Altar, giving it a split profile is an interesting idea; though to play devil'sDaemon's advocate, why not go whole hog and have 4 different profiles, one for each great power? Tzeentch one can then have skimmer for instance, nurgle have 4DC etc etc.


In all, I'll correct all the typos and include the flyer and Khorne engine changes above and release V0.4. I can look at the wording for Daemonic summoning but I'm pretty sure I directly copy pasted from the Black legion list to avoid any differences or confusion. If anyone wants to try an Altar with 5+RA but 25cm Mv then I can't see any gamebreaking issues with that and I would be interested in seeing a BatRep with one.

Finally, thanks for all the feedback guys.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:10 pm 
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MikeT wrote:
Regarding the Altar, giving it a split profile is an interesting idea; though to play devil'sDaemon's advocate, why not go whole hog and have 4 different profiles, one for each great power? Tzeentch one can then have skimmer for instance, nurgle have 4DC etc etc.
.


Not sure how much of a devil that was, but I like the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Same here, it sounds like a great opportunity to add some character.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Sounds great MikeT. Now we are really starting to get somewhere. This list is turning into something really thematic and varied. I look forward to my next play test.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:07 pm 
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Still waiting on v0.4?


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Yes, what happened?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:06 pm 
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*pokes MikeT*

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