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| Obliterators http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=17516 |
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| Author: | Steve54 [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
Obliterators Firstly this is independent of any discussion about new AA units - if we end up keeping AA on the oblit it doesn't preclude other options also being adopted if so desired. My preferred course on the Obliterators is to downgrade rather than remake them (as in the current proposals). Reduce weaponry to 2x AT5+/AP5+/AA5+ Limit to 0-1 per formation as an upgrade This drops their AA by 33% and limits numbers. Edited for Xmas hangover mistakes  |
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| Author: | Man of kent [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I've always been agains the obliterators having AA...it just doesn't feel right: I can't imagine even an obliterator being able to pull several quad autocannons out of it's body let alone be equipped with enough targetting equipment to make a long range AA attack: I say drop it entirely so as to turn them more into the walking behomoths they should be rather than the static gun platform that they currently are. |
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| Author: | frogbear [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
There is not enough info here to really agree on Steve The decrease in armour? They are already 4+ from every chaos list and version I have. Did you mean 5+ RA? Are you advising that they lose Teleport and Fearless? No change in the 2+ FF stat? What cost would you put on such a unit? Not sure whether the above are changes or just mistaken ommisions Thanks |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I've wondered whether keeping their number of attacks the same yet changing to AA6 might be a good compromise... oh and also a potential price increase, rather than a 0-1 limit. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
Quote: (Hena @ Dec. 27 2009, 14:00 ) If it gets downgrade I'd probably avoid point changes. As unless you teleport it, it causes the entire retinue to walk and that's a big minus. How is this different from 'Terminators'... they too are priced assuming that they will use the best of their abilities (Teleport)... they're not priced in the expectation that you'll be walking them around on foot... If there was no price increase, I'd support a 0-1 limit per formation to paper over their under-costed price. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
The Red Corsairs currently use this version which, i think, closely mimics their Wh40k abilities both from fluff and rules perspectives: Obliterators Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight Infantry 15cm 4+ 4+ 4+ Weapon Range Firepower Notes Body Weapons 45cm 3 x AP5+/AT5+ -              (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attack (+1)              (base contact) Assault Weapons Macro-weapon, Extra Attacks (+1) Notes: Fearless, Reinforced Armour, Teleport, Thick Rear Armour. Note that i removed Invulnerable Save. These things wear the equivalent of Terminator Armour. They aren't Daemons. |
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| Author: | Honda [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I am not in favor of them having AA abilities (think back to Tau Ion Cannon Hammerheads). I think the Red Corsair version more correctly portrays their capabilities. |
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| Author: | stompzilla [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I don't think there's anything too drastic needs doing to Oblits, personally - they do have the disadvantage of slowing the fm down quite a bit (Although they can still drop pod and garrison). I would be in favour of them losing the AA and the inv save and everything else remaining the same or alternatively if you're going for minimalist changes, just lose fearless and the inv save. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
Unsurprisingly, I agree with the others in suggesting that the Oblits lose AA which IMHO will go a long way to balancing the unit. Being infantry means that they are virtually impossible to destroy or surpress and 3 AA shots is way OTT, quite apart from the 'fluff' issues being raised by others. Dropping AA (and possibly 'Invulnerable') would also remove the need to restrict the number per formation However, I would suggest including the replacement AA unit(s) in the upgrade category to avoid messing up the use of upgrade 'slots'. So something like
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| Author: | stompzilla [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I find myself agreeing with ginger, again. |
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| Author: | GlynG [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
I think they should lose the AA attack too. |
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| Author: | Mephiston [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
Without AA I just wouldn't bother with Oblit's. Daemons make better meat shields and Havoc's will pump out more shooting per point. Fearless is handy but not the main reason I take Oblits right now. I'd also throw out the suggestion some one made a while ago to make them LV. |
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| Author: | Ginger [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Obliterators |
Just checking, but are you suggesting an LV unit with 4+RA? And without AA, what cost would be appropriate? |
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