Tactical Command
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Vraksian Traitors 1.06
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=17252		 Page 1 of 7
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Latest Version: Version 1.06

.....

Any thoughts on maybe having a limited form of Daemon available?

I'd like to shy away from the full 'resource management' of the normal Daemon rules, so perhaps simply a unit/formation with the teleport ability, which if broken is automatically destroyed outright?
Author:  Flogus [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
There is no limit on Allies, allowing to build a full allies army.

Page 1 :
"Although most Vraksian regiments do not have traitor Titan allies"
... but this armylist is not for "most Vraksian regiments", isn't it ? ;)
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
If you really want Daemons even if Vraksians don't have access to Daemons then put them in the Allies section. The Teleport and auto-kill if broken is a good representation for an allied Chaos Daemon army :) But iwould use only generic Daemons.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Quote: (Flogus @ Nov. 25 2009, 23:59 )

There is no limit on Allies, allowing to build a full allies army.

Assume 33% as standard. :)

Quote: 

"Although most Vraksian regiments do not have traitor Titan allies"

That's a leftover from earlier versions of the list.
Author:  Honda [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
So this is a mid-war list, which is why there is potential for daemons?

Also, I'm curious, why do the Vraksian have better artillery from an organizational perspective than the Krieg? In particular, the Vraksian get an artillery company as core, but the Krieg do not. I would have thought just the opposite.

I realize that the Vraksian have access to a lot of equipment, but it would seem that the Krieg siege armies ought to be organizationally stronger than their opponents. This is probably not the place for the discussion, but have you ever considered moving the Krieg arty company to core?

Looks like a very interesting list.

Cheers,
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Quote: (Honda @ Nov. 26 2009, 00:55 )

So this is a mid-war list, which is why there is potential for daemons?

Mid to late war, after the Titan Legions and Chaos Navy have arrived, but before the total breakdown of the rebel forces and the evacuation of the Chaos Space Marine forces.

Quote: 

I realize that the Vraksian have access to a lot of equipment, but it would seem that the Krieg siege armies ought to be organizationally stronger than their opponents. This is probably not the place for the discussion, but have you ever considered moving the Krieg arty company to core?

Balance.

I'd put in a core company for the Krieg if I wasn't worried about it making the list too powerful.
Author:  fattdex [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
I am glad the harbinger is not cheesy! This may be an excuse for me to finally use it fo something (Had it for ai since it came out, not used yet)
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Shouldn't the Minotaur and the E&C Medusa version of the Minotaur be on the Artillery list ?                              DOH !!!   :oops:   Found it !!  :sulk:   Sorry ... I'm old ...  :down:  :laugh:  :cool:
Author:  fattdex [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Minotaur is in under heavy artillery support formation?

I will play test this list on Monday, assuming i can find some proxies.

2975 pts

250 tank hunters- valdor

350 heavy arty- minotaur

375 reg hq
100 +beserkers

650 malcador company

100 sentinels

300 disciples of xaphan

450 harbinger

200 hellblades

200 hellblades

Modeling question- got a ny good suggestions for a base to build renedage ogryns from, ala forgeworld models?
EDIT: might try warmaster ogres http://www.games-workshop.com/gws....1130204
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
I like the look of this list a lot.

1 thing I note though, is that the change to the LR Destroyer Tank Hunter. It's now too similar to the LR Executioner.
Why the change from AT4+ TK(1)?

Will you be trying to get the stats changed in other lists that use the Destroyer?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Quote: (fattdex @ Nov. 26 2009, 06:46 )

Modeling question- got a ny good suggestions for a base to build renedage ogryns from, ala forgeworld models?
EDIT: might try warmaster ogres http://www.games-workshop.com/gws....1130204

Warmaster Ogres would be too big I think... maybe use Warmaster Orcs?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Quote: (Onyx @ Nov. 26 2009, 08:08 )

...the change to the LR Destroyer Tank Hunter...
Why the change from AT4+ TK(1)?

Once we looked at it again, we realised we'd made it too powerful compared to its 40k equivilent.

Perhaps it should be AT2+, Macro-Weapon, instead of AT3+?

Quote: 

Will you be trying to get the stats changed in other lists that use the Destroyer?

Once we sort some stats here, I may propose it. Moscovian is open to changing the stats in the Mineveran list if we can get them to work, IIRC.
Author:  Honda [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
Quote: 

I'd put in a core company for the Krieg if I wasn't worried about it making the list too powerful.


Fair enough and definitely a good reason to place it where it now resides. I have another question on the Krieg that I'll post in the appropriate thread.

However, to get back to more to the intent of my original post, should the Vraksian army have access to an artillery company? Especially at this period of time?

My reasoning for asking the question is that an artillery company or equivalent (in any era) represents a significant command and logistical effort for any army. At this time, it would seem like the Vraksians would be struggling in that regard and that perhaps the three unit batteries "might" be a better representation.

Then the Vraksians can still get access to a lot of artillery if that is what you are attempting to model, but from a fluff perspective, the Krieg lend the appearance that they have better logistics and in fact are able to demonstate this with larger more powerful formations.

A historical model to observe, would be the mid-late war progression of artillery in the WWII Soviet army. Early in the war their organization was unfocused as they just tried to put metal on target. Their inability to perform this function led to the plethora of assault guns that fired direct LOS artillery shells (e.g. SU-85, SU-122).

However, as the war progressed and their artillery arm got their act together, they were actually able to organize the equivalent of artillery armies who were able to coordinate their fire to devestating effect.

Anyway, it's just a thought and I leave the balancing in your capable hands.

Cheers,
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
I don't mind the exact reduced stats but I definitely support the reduced stats for the Destroyer Tank Hunter. It's a good gun but not to the level of Titan Killer, the original translation was disproportionally over-powered in making it that.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Vraksian Traitors 1.06
I would not be adverse to simply removing the Artillery Company.
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