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Some more Black Legion questions
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Author:  studderingdave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
im assembling some epic chaos stands and i dont wanna screw them up, so i have some questions.

1.if i have a formation of 4 terminator stands, one stand has a warlord in it, if i want to upgrade the warlord to a demon prnce, is the single warlord figure replaces or does the demon prince replace the entire stand of termies? making it one DP and 3 stands of termies.

2. putting cult marines in a retinue doesnt make all the CSM's in the retinue that cult right? if i have 8 csm's, and i add 4 plague marines to the formation, then i have 8 normal CSM stands and 4 plague marine stands right?

2b. there is no way to have specific cult formations in the black legion right? no pure plague marine formations and such?

im sure ill have more questions as i keep building, thanks in advance.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
1 - Technically he replaces the entire unit. However for my Chaos I have my Daemon Prince guarded by 3 terminators as his personal retinue.

2 - Correct.

2b - Correct. Only variant army lists such as the Thousand Sons, Death Guard etc allow pure Cult formations. AFAIK the only army list that allows pure Cult formations from multiple different Chaos Factions in the same army is the Red Corsairs army list.
Author:  studderingdave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
thanks for the quick reply, i have another question.

if i have a retinue that has a warlord, a champion and an incon bearer, are all 3 models put on the same base or 3 seperate bases throughout the formation?

also, im curious, what are the pro/cons of the red corsair list compared to the BL list? ive been seeing alot about the RC list lately, it might not be to late to convert.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Quote: (studderingdave @ 22 Jun. 2009, 23:22 )

if i have a retinue that has a warlord, a champion and an incon bearer, are all 3 models put on the same base or 3 seperate bases throughout the formation?

You can choose to combine characters on a single stand or spread them out as you desire.  Makes for a tough unit if combined, but there's the "eggs in one basket" vulnerability as well.

Also note that some abilities don't "stack" or double up, such as invulnerable saves.
Author:  studderingdave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
i think all the characters on one stand looks alot better, now that i know i can do it ill go with that.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Quote: (studderingdave @ 22 Jun. 2009, 23:22 )

if i have a retinue that has a warlord, a champion and an incon bearer, are all 3 models put on the same base or 3 seperate bases throughout the formation?

All three can be on the same unit, so of the 5 models on the stand, 3 will be characters!

also, im curious, what are the pro/cons of the red corsair list compared to the BL list? ive been seeing alot about the RC list lately, it might not be to late to convert.

Pro:
- A different list organisation, in this case one that represents a recently-turned Chapter of Marines that has only just started down the dark path of Chaos, instead the millenia of corruption represented by the Black Legion.

In practical terms it mixes elements of the Marine army list (like having Thunderhawks and Hunter AA vehicles) with some Chaos elements too (like having Defilers and the smaller Daemon Engines).

Like the Warhammer 40,000 Red Corsairs, they can only summon 'generic' Lesser and Greater Daemons, instead of faction-specific ones, as the majority of the Red Corsairs have not yet committed to individual Chaos Gods.


Cons:
- The list is still experimental; balancing is not yet complete, though I'm sure BlackLegion (the list sub-champion) would be happy to hear of your playtests.
- If you're into Tournaments you'll only be able to take it to Tournies where ERC lists are allowed... luckily for you the Tournies in your neck of the woods do allow ERC lists IIRC. :)



In general you should find that many of your models can be used either for the Black Legion army list or the Red Corsairs army list, without too much difficulty in transferring between them.
Author:  studderingdave [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
yeah after looking over both lists it looks like i can easily make a corsair/BL army, being bale to run either list with minor army changs, much like my minervan/AMTL force.

thanks for the info.
Author:  AxelFendersson [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Quote: (studderingdave @ 22 Jun. 2009, 23:09 )

1.if i have a formation of 4 terminator stands, one stand has a warlord in it, if i want to upgrade the warlord to a demon prnce, is the single warlord figure replaces or does the demon prince replace the entire stand of termies? making it one DP and 3 stands of termies.

The Daemon Prince unit replaces the Terminator unit. However, it's worth noting that the Daemon Prince unit is infantry, so in theory there ought to be at least three models on the base. That said, I don't think anyone would particularly care if your Daemon Prince was the only model on the base, especially if it's significantly larger than most infantry. And if you do add a couple of extra models, it's up to you what those other models are.
Author:  studderingdave [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
so im building my first list. when we play at our LGS we play 3000 points usually, so im going to go with this:

5 termies 325
icon bearer 50
champion 50
demon pact 25
demon prince 50.........500 (khorne)

Retinue 275
8 CSM's
lord
demon pact 25
icon 50
champion 50......400 (nurgle)

Retinue 275
8 CSM's
lord
4 noise marines 150
4 havocs 150............575 (slaanesh)

4 defilers
+2 desecrators .......... 450

demon pool
lesser: 320
greater: 200

2 deathwheel..........550

the greater demons will be a bloodthirster to go with the teleporting khorne termies. the other will be a great unclean one going with the nurgle marines. the slaanesh retinue will be shooty. the defiler formation will be a test to see how well it does, using the points and stats fromt he red corsair list.

the force could prolly use some dedicated AT and transport capacity, but i will learn on the way im sure.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Quote: (studderingdave @ 22 Jun. 2009, 23:22 )

If i have a retinue that has a warlord, a champion and an incon bearer, are all 3 models put on the same base or 3 seperate bases throughout the formation?

Remember special abilities don't 'stack'.

So the above three chaps give that stand
Leader, Supreme Commander and Invulnerable Save
Augment Summoning (+2D3), Invulnerable Save
Leader, Daemonic Focus, Invulnerable Save

Which leaves you with
Supreme Commander, Leader and Invulnerable Save
Augment Summoning (+2D3)
Daemonic Focus

Which means its often better to upgradea couple of other stands to get the full range of abilities. You could have 3 lots of chosen with invulnerable saves for example.

Toss in a demon Prince (and why not?)
Commander, Leader, Fearless, Reinforced Armour, Teleport

Now adding the Champion to that stand gives him an invulnerable save for an incredible 3+, 3+, 6+ save (a mere 5/54 chance of being killed from each hit, meaning it would take 11 hits (a russ company produces roughly 12 hits) to on average be sure of a kill - well unless its a demon prince called Gavin, in which case a guardsman with a flashlighht stands a chance, but thats another matter :) ).

Even adding the 'focus here could be an idea if you didn't absolutely need two instances of leader in the formation.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Quote: (studderingdave @ 23 Jun. 2009, 01:51 )

so im building my first list. when we play at our LGS we play 3000 points usually, so im going to go with this:

You have 'actiation' problems there. I would never play with less than 7 activations (and at a tourny less than 9 or 10) as you just get out-manoeuvered.

Also most players go for no hated factions so the special rule gets ignored, but thats largely for convience.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
Well all questions are already answered. But one addition to TRCs posting:

The Extra Attacks of each Character added to a unit actually DO stack.
So a Daemon Prince with an Chaos Champion added gets a neat 3+ Extra-Attack with First Strike :)
Author:  studderingdave [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
has anyone had any success with berserkers? im wondering how i could incorperate them into my army.

im using a khorne termie unit to teleport into a sweet spot then bring in a bunch of demons and a bloodthirster, but im not sure how to tie khorne berserkers into the list.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
With Red Corsairs you could load them into Thunderhawks or Stormbirds  :p Put in a Chaos Dreadnought to fill up the remaining space, add a Daemonic Pact and voila. CC Death from above  :laugh:
Author:  studderingdave [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Some more Black Legion questions
ive been looking over the red corsair list alot, im sure i would be using it as well as the BL list from time to time.
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