Tactical Command
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Alternative Obliterator change
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=12987		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
What if we keep the Obliterator point cost the same and leave it as an option for Chosen but change the Obliterator upgrade so it is one unit instead of 1-3 units?

You could still then put three of them in a Chosen squad but you would then have no other options available to you
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
This is exactly the kind of change in allowance that you applied to the Decimators, Chosen, Raptors etc... the unit was overpowered when spammable, so you patched over the crack with a more narrow 0-1 or 0-2 limit.

That doesn't go anywhere towards solving the underlying imbalance, it only patches over the cracks.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
In a way - on the other hand AA units are almost universally 0-1 in upgrades. Actually thinking about it are Marines 0-2 now, Eldar I've no idea, and Orks unlimited? :) Okay, well Imperial Guard are 0-1 Hydra!
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
I assume that at some point there is going to be a dedicated Chaos AA vehicle/unit as well and at that point we might even be able to remove the AA from the Obliterator.

Which might make this suggestion not as useful
Author:  Steve54 [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
A further effect of a Chaos AA vehicle is that it will limit the number of WEs that can be taken - Mechanised retinues are very difficult to use as the Rhinos get shot away and provide easy BMs but putting an AA vehicle in a walking retinue. is going to make it very vulnerable as the only AT target.

I would probably end up using fighters - therefore limiting the number of titans available
Author:  Chroma [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
Quote: (Steve54 @ 06 Jul. 2008, 17:15 )

I would probably end up using fighters - therefore limiting the number of titans available

Why would it take up "Titan" space?  It would probably be something like a Marine Hunter and attached to other formations; and AV instead of a WE.
Author:  Steve54 [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
As the AA vehicle would be very difficult to use so I would take fighters - from the Titan/flyer allowance
Author:  pixelgeek [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
Quote: (Steve54 @ 06 Jul. 2008, 09:22 )

As the AA vehicle would be very difficult to use so I would take fighters - from the Titan/flyer allowance

That is your choice though and not a limitation of the list. Its also indicative of the problem of the Obliterators having an AA value.

The problem of AA vehicles is one that every list has to deal with so this discussion I think illuminates the problem of the AA value of the Obliterator even more.

If we are going to add an AA unit to the list then I suggest that the Obliterator lose its AA value entirely and retain its current cost and upgrade options
Author:  Lord Inquisitor [ Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
I thought about this, but actually I think it makes the chosen issue worse. I've not seen any lists with more than one or two obliterators attached to chosen - so it won't make obliterators any less of a no-brainer for chosen formations. The flip side is that it makes dedicated AA garrisoning retinues less attractive as they can only tag along one unit of chosen.

I'm with pixel, I think either the simple removal of AA from Chosen or an overhaul of the Chosen profile is the way to go and add in the new AA unit. I'll present options for that soon! :upside:
Author:  Tooninki [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
to Lord -I- Removal of AA from Chosen!? You mean lose Oblis AA?
I'm cool with that, just got my Defilers, so they will be my AA unit with couple Hellblades.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
As much as I like the idea of a Defiler based AA option I think its best to make it a Rhino or LR based option as that would allow most players to easily convert a model using parts from the Marine Hunter or old Whirlwinds.
Author:  scarik [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
I dunno PG, a defiler with Hydra guns on it would be pretty awesome.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
Quote: (scarik @ 07 Jul. 2008, 15:46 )

I dunno PG, a defiler with Hydra guns on it would be pretty awesome.

It would look awesome, but we have to consider the practical reality of the situation here (Most players will not have access to Defilers).
Author:  pixelgeek [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Obliterator change
Quote: (scarik @ 07 Jul. 2008, 07:46 )

I dunno PG, a defiler with Hydra guns on it would be pretty awesome.

No doubt but your average player would then have to build their own Defiler and then mod it.

We can't ask people to do that for something as critical as an AA unit
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