Including ah small formation (6 or so) of Cultists with Teleport could beused to simulate loyal troops turning traitor.
Ok would be difficult to explain against opponents like Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Eldar
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| Author: | Mojarn Piett [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
Ok, I'm far from an expert of E:A. But I'd still like to try and do a usable Alpha Legion list. If for no other reason than for the fact it's so rare to sea a Alpha Legion army. Apologies for using the LatD forum but Chaos marines don't have their own section. Design concepts: -Alpha legion should have good initiative and high strategy rating as they make extensive use of intelligence, spies and misdirection and plan their campaigns carefully. I have also been toying with the idea of allowing them retain automatically once per game. -They should have limited amount of War Engines as they operate far from Eye of Terror. Absolutely no Banelords or Ravagers. Other war engine formations should probably be smaller than in Black Legion list and perhaps even have their total number limited. -They make extensive use of well-trained cultists in almost the same way loyalists use Scouts -> Cultists with scout ability but no heavy weapons. -Alpha legion guys are good at stealth and sneaking around so infiltrate for normal Chaos marines should, perhaps, be in order. -They don't usually use daemons so only cultist formations may purchase daemonic pact. More ideas? Suggestions? Anything else? |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
I'll try and track down the Alpha Legion list I put together a long time ago and post it here. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
Here's my take. The concept is Alpha legion leading a recent traitor rebellion. It's basically exactly what Mojarn said, with the exception of not having scout cultists. It has fewer CSM formations (i.e. less variety), with recent traitor support (low mutation levels, mostly real Imperial gear as opposed to the L&D freakishness). Only the traitors have daemon summoning abilities/upgrades. Access to big WE/daemon engines is contingent on the traitors as well. All the upgrades are as the same-named BL or L&D upgrade. ====== Alpha Legion Retinue 8 Chaos Space Marines and 1 Chaos Space Marine Lord Rhinos, Havocs, Dreadnought, Defilers, Dreadclaws, Chaos Land Raiders, Obliterators, Daemon Prince 275 Alpha Legion Infiltrators Six Chaos Space Marines and 1 Chaos Space Marine Lord (Chaos Space Marines in the formation receive the Scout ability for free) Dreadclaws, Rhinos 200 Bikes One Chaos Lord character upgrade and eight Chaos Space Marines Bike units 300 points Armor Four to eight Chaos Predators and/or Chaos Land Raiders 50 points per Predator 75 points per Land Raider 0-1 Alpha Legion Chosen One Chaos Lord character upgrade and from four to six Chosen Space Marine units Dreadnought, Defilers, Chaos Land Raiders, Dreadclaws, Obliterators, Daemon Prince 65 points per unit Traitor Coven One Demagogue or Chaos Marine Aspiring Champion and eleven Cultist units Daemon Prince, Chaos Altar, Chaos Champion, Cultists or Mutants, Daemonic Pact, Icon Bearer, Traitor Fire Support, Traitor Flak, Traitor Griffon Battery, Traitor Hellhound Squadron, Traitor Tank Squadron, Transports, 200 points Traitor Rough Rider Platoon Six Traitor Rough Rider units 150 points Traitor Sentinel Squadron Four Traitor Sentinels. 100 points Traitor Artillery Battery Four Basilisk. 325 points Traitor Armoured Company Six Traitor Leman Russ 400 points Daemon Pool Daemon Engine and Aerospace Formations (Up to one-third of army points may be spent on these units) Daemon Engine Formations (May take 0-1 per Traitor Coven formation) Khorne: 1-2 Lords of Battles. 400 points each Nurgle: Plague Tower 1-2 Plague Towers. 325 points each Slaanesh: Daemon Scout Titans 1-2 Daemon Scout Titans. Questors - 275 points each Subjugators - 225 points each Tzeentch: Four Silver Towers 325 points Undivided: Traitor Super Heavy Tanks 1-3 Baneblades, Shadowswords or combination 200 points each Traitor Thunderbolt Fighters 150 points for two Traitor Marauder Bombers 300 points for two Swiftdeath Interceptor [or Hellblade] 200 points for three Helltalon Fighter-bomber 300 points for two Alpha Legion Devastation Class Cruiser 150 points Alpha Legion Despoiler Class Battleship 250 points ==== I have a prettied up version with graphics and stuff as well. With all the background it's about 8 pages. It's still WIP, but if anyone wants it, let me know. |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
(nealhunt @ Mar. 15 2007,14:24) QUOTE Here's my take. ?The concept is Alpha legion leading a recent traitor rebellion. ?It's basically exactly what Mojarn said, with the exception of not having scout cultists. Well, Neal's is very close to mine. I had none of the Daemon Engines, allowed some more IG stuff and Super-Heavies. Gave them a Strategy Rating of 5 to represent a surprise attack/uprising. Had it set to "Up to two Traitor Guard formations for every Alpha Legion formation" as well. |
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| Author: | semajnollissor [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
(Chroma @ Mar. 15 2007,11:43) QUOTE ...Gave them a Strategy Rating of 5 to represent a surprise attack/uprising... Maybe just a strategy rating of 4 instead? I mean, the element of surprise counts for alot, but that doesn't necessarily give you the ability to react quickly to changing battlefield conditions. Also, it would make my Eldar feel inadequate. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
(Chroma @ Mar. 15 2007,17:43) QUOTE Had it set to "Up to two Traitor Guard formations for every Alpha Legion formation" as well. I thought about something like this but decided it wasn't needed. The L&D list can take everything in the Traitor section but has more variety. If you were going to take just Traitors without the Alpha Legion guys, you'd do better to just use L&D. |
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| Author: | mageboltrat [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
I wouldn't have any of the chaos powered daemon engines. I would go with sentinels and other scouting units instead. I would also not have the larger Aerospace units, they are a reaver force so would not have Battleships. |
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| Author: | mageboltrat [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
Drop all of these. Khorne: 1-2 Lords of Battles. 400 points each Nurgle: Plague Tower 1-2 Plague Towers. 325 points each Slaanesh: Daemon Scout Titans 1-2 Daemon Scout Titans. Questors - 275 points each Subjugators - 225 points each Tzeentch: Four Silver Towers 325 points and I would probably drop this too. Alpha Legion Despoiler Class Battleship 250 points What about adding insurgent squads, stormtrooper style guard with teleport |
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| Author: | Mojarn Piett [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
(semajnollissor @ Mar. 15 2007,21:10) QUOTE (Chroma @ Mar. 15 2007,11:43) QUOTE ...Gave them a Strategy Rating of 5 to represent a surprise attack/uprising... Maybe just a strategy rating of 4 instead? I mean, the element of surprise counts for alot, but that doesn't necessarily give you the ability to react quickly to changing battlefield conditions. Also, it would make my Eldar feel inadequate. Well, Alpha Legion is famous for just that i.e. reacting quickly and always having a back-up plan. Alpharius encouraged initiative and fast thinking and the Legion has followed in his footsteps. But neal, I'm curious: why scout instead of infiltrate to the Alpha Legion marines? The cultists in my suggestions were there because of what is said about alpha legion cultists in the Index Astartes article (WD277) and the Chaos Marine Codex: The Cults that are sponsored and supported by Alpha Legion are trained to assault and secure key objectives to ensure subsequent attacks by the legion achieve complete surprise. They are skilled combatants who combine stealth with close combat. Heavy weapons will normally only slow them down so they are only equipped with assault weaponry. So they basically do what stormtroopers do but don't have hellguns or heavy support. Alpha Legion Cultists Infantry 15cm 6+ 4+ 6+ Lasguns: 15cm, small arms CC weapons: base contact, Assault Weapons, Extra attack +1 Notes: Scouts The Extra attack represents 40k skills (furious charge, siege specialists) as well as demo charges and other sabotage equipment. Alpha legion cultist cell: One cult champion and nine cultist units. Upgrades: Daemonic pact, Icon Bearer, Snipers. For snipers just use traitor snipers. I like the use of traitors and I agree with dropping the power specific daemon engines as Alpha Legion are undivided and operate far from the eye. |
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
SR: I left it at 4 because it's not just Alpha Legion. They do have to coordinate the Cultists/Traitors as well. Factions: I cut the special rules before posting, but in case there's a question, all AL formations are Undivided. Only the Traitor formations can have a faction. Daemons/Engines: The Alpha Legion has trouble summoning daemons and such because of distance from the Eye and their numbers not allowing a "critical mass" of belief to sustain the daemons. However, they can and do use daemonic aid when given time and preparation. They can use Possessed CSMs and Possessed vehicles (both Defilers and upgrades for other vehicles). The Cultists/Traitors, otoh, do have access to daemons due to their fanatical belief. That's why only the traitor formations have the Pact upgrade and the use of daemon engines is restricted by the number of Traitor formations. It's also why I left the Chaos Altar as an upgrade option. Notice it's only the really big daemon engines (WEs) that are available. In order to get daemonic support the traitors have had to invest a lot of resources into preparing vessels for the big boys. From a game balance persepctive, I think it is good to have access to WEs. For those of you who dislike the idea, what would you include to make up for this hole in the list? I don't think that even a horde-ish AL/Cult list would have the staying power of something like the Speed Freeks, so I think it needs access to some heavy guns and just throwing in Shadowswords seems like a cop-out. Battleships: I could see cutting that. Makes sense. Scout v Infiltrate: Infiltrate in Epic isn't really "infiltration" in the real-world sense of the word. It's really a super charge ability and applying it to the Alpha Legion CSMs it wouldn't even be much of a benefit. Scout allows them to garrison which, imho, feels more like what we think of as a the covert/infiltrate ops. AL Cultists: I went with more of a traitor theme for the army specifically to distinguish it from an L&D army with CSM support. My perception of the AL cultists in 40K are the truly die-hard fanatics of a dedicated chaos cult. That doesn't fit very well with a more general, traitor-uprising theme. == Anyway, this is just my perception. As always, your mileage may vary. |
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| Author: | Mojarn Piett [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
(nealhunt @ Mar. 16 2007,15:31) QUOTE From a game balance persepctive, I think it is good to have access to WEs. For those of you who dislike the idea, what would you include to make up for this hole in the list? I don't think that even a horde-ish AL/Cult list would have the staying power of something like the Speed Freeks, so I think it needs access to some heavy guns and just throwing in Shadowswords seems like a cop-out. I agree there should be war engines. What I meant was to take out power specific war engines like contagions & such and leave the undivided ones (Death Wheel and Decimator). Plus there's always the Feral Titan. As for the infiltration I know it's not the same as in 40k but still represents IMO the way how skillful troops can sneak past enemy to get to targets behind them. Kind of like German stormtroopers in WWI. The scout ability OTOH fits very well to the description of AL cultists in the WD article. |
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| Author: | mageboltrat [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
DITTO Definitely keep war engines, and even scout titans, drop everything that is god specific, no Lord of Battles etc. I like the idea of cultist units, but I would go with something along the idea of plague zombies, formations that can appear and be a annoyance. Possibly give them access to guard support units instead of Chaos units, to represent PDF turning traitor rather than them shipping in units from off world. |
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| Author: | Chroma [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
Found some of my notes for this. Here's a Special Rule I thought well reflected the Alpha Legion's "cunning". (Also thought it might work for Dark Eldar.) Special Rule - Surprise Attack! The Alpha Legion makes extensive use of cunning deployment and the corruption of apparently loyal Imperial forces. When the time is right, they reveal their insidious plans, often striking a completely unprepared foe. To represent this focus of the Alpha Legion the following special rule applies. At the start of the game and for the first turn, an Alpha Legion army is considered to have a Strategy Rating of 5; this is used for determining table edges, deployment order, etc. In all subsequent turns they are treated as having Strategy Rating 3 as local forces mobilize to respond to their treachery. |
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
Including ah small formation (6 or so) of Cultists with Teleport could beused to simulate loyal troops turning traitor. Ok would be difficult to explain against opponents like Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Eldar
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| Author: | nealhunt [ Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alpha Legion |
I agree there should be war engines. What I meant was to take out power specific war engines like contagions & such and leave the undivided ones (Death Wheel and Decimator). Plus there's always the Feral Titan. Ah, I see. We just have a different intepretation of the background. My perception of the Deathwheel and Decimator were as BL-only. Overgrown daemon engines were a hallmark of the 13th Crusade rather than a general Chaos Marine feature. ======== Edit: Also, I really, really dislike the proliferation of Teleport-as-sneak attack. It was first introduced for the Lictors which both by 40K rules and background are supposed to be phenomenally wicked in that regard. Only extremely skillful stealth units should be considered for this ability. |
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