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Dreadclaw questions
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:40 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 17 Jul. 2009, 14:29 )

Quote: (BlackLegion @ 17 Jul. 2009, 13:22 )

Actually Skimmers are more manouverable than Aircrafts. Skimmers (read: Helicopters) can turn on the spot. Aircrafts can't. But Aircrafts are very much faster.

So a Manta is more manueverable than a Thunderbolt Fighter?

Skimmer no more equates to "Helicopter" than Walker equates to "something with two legs".

Actually i'm speaking of vehicles of roughly the same size. A Manta has much more mass to move but yes it too can turn on the spot and hover motionless in midair.
Something an aircraft without Hover Mode just can't.

On the picture: If the two flaming streaks in the background are planetfalling Dreadclaws i see the angled Dreadclaw on the ground just moments before extending two of their claws to uprigt itselfe. The Machine Spirit should be capable of doing so.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Actually i'm speaking of vehicles of roughly the same size. A Manta has much more mass to move but yes it too can turn on the spot and hover motionless in midair.


As quick as a plane can turn?

Skimmer has little to do with your manuever profile, and is better considered a general description that covers several movement types, just as Walker doesn't literally mean White Scars bikers have loads of tiny feet on their bikes' wheels.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Hmmmm yes. The time an aircrafts takes to make a 180° turn could possibly the time a Manta needs to turn 180° on the spot.

I see Skimmer the same as "something which has similar manouverablitity as a dragonfly/helicopter"

Walker is "something which has similar manouverability as Infantry"

Note similar not the same as mass inertia would hamper the rapid zig-zag style method of flying drganonflys are capable of :laugh:




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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:54 pm 
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I repeat, E&C, where are you getting this eye candy from?

It's awesome!

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Chroma
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:54 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 17 Jul. 2009, 13:54 )

I repeat, E&C, where are you getting this eye candy from?

It's from the "Siege of Vraks" Imperial Armour books.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:58 pm 
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The time an aircrafts takes to make a 180° turn could possibly the time a Manta needs to turn 180° on the spot.


You can turn a military fighter around in a handful of seconds.


Anyways, I've presented all the evidence I can find about the Dreadclaw's lack of in-atmosphere transit speed/manueverability.

If you disagree at this point and still believe it's as quick as an aircraft when moving across a planet's surface to re-deploy troops during battle, then I doubt I can change your mind.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 17 Jul. 2009, 13:54 )

I repeat, E&C, where are you getting this eye candy from?

It's awesome!

Sorry, missed your question as we changed page.

Imperial Armour VI, which also features the most recent version of the Dreadclaw's rules.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:04 pm 
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And i can imagine a Manta turning in less than a minute too :)

And really: Could you believe that Chaos Space Marines would voluntarily fly around in relatively slow unarmed transports at battlefield conditions?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 17 Jul. 2009, 14:04 )

And i can imagine a Manta turning in less than a minute too :)

~A minute of turning time is different to five seconds.

Skimmer does not automatically equate to "more manueverable than a fighter aircraft"

And really: Could you believe that Chaos Space Marines would voluntarily fly around in relatively slow unarmed transports at battlefield conditions?

I don't see Dreadclaw's lateral transit speed as being much quicker than that of a Valkyrie or Vulture, so yes...

...and the fact is that whilst a Skimmer Dreadclaw could work in-game, an Aircraft Dreadclaw breaks several basic rule mechanics of Epic.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 17 Jul. 2009, 15:11)


~A minute of turning time is different to five seconds.

It is less than a minute. I have no clue about realworld turning times of fighter aircrafts.

Skimmer does not automatically equate to "more manueverable than a fighter aircraft"[/i]

In Epic rules terms: No it does.

...and the fact is that whilst a Skimmer Dreadclaw could work in-game, an Aircraft Dreadclaw breaks several basic rule mechanics of Epic.
And because i see Skimmer not as represantation of the background and Aircraft as breaking the transport rules my proposal is:
Use Dreadclaws as Droppods, remove the scattering and remove the Deathwind attack.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:24 pm 
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I have no clue about realworld turning times of fighter aircrafts.


I lived under an RAF training flight path for ten years (not fun when they decide to train night flying in the early hours!). Five to ten seconds depending on fighter type and speed is not an unreasonable turning time.

Here's a video of an F16 completing a 360 turn in 18 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5aUGum2EiM I'm sure Wikipedia will have proper details on turn rates.

Skimmer does not automatically equate to "more manueverable than a fighter aircraft"[ In Epic rules terms: No it does.

You feel qualified to stand by that opinion firmly when you profess to know little about the manueverability profiles of real world aircraft?




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:26 pm 
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So and a Manta can`t turn that fast?
Or a Valkyrie?
Or a Falcon?
Or a Land Speeder?

You feel qualified to stand by that opinion firmly when you profess to know little about the manueverability profiles of real world aircraft?

No hard data. But videos on TV or youtube like those you linked here.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 17 Jul. 2009, 14:26 )

So and a Manta can`t turn that fast?
Or a Valkyrie?
Or a Falcon?
Or a Land Speeder?

Raising a new question does not answer my own question.


Your question is irrelevant, my point is that Skimmer can potentially cover a wide variety of manuever profiles, and just because some Skimmers can turn quickly, it does not automatically follow that all Skimmers can turn quickly. So raising some examples of some quick-turning Skimmers does not actually tackle my point.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Skimmer in EPIC has nothing to do with manuverability, it's got to do with being able to "float" above the ground.  It's just coincidence that most skimmers also have high ground speed.  You could have a skimmer unit with a 0cm move, that could still "pop-up" and force firefights even if completely stationary.

Since I don't think a Dreadclaw should be able to "force firefight" it should probably have jump packs to represent it bouncing around on thrusters if it has any movement at all.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Jump Packs would also be an adequate representation IMHO.

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