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World Eaters v1.01

 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 04 Feb. 2009, 03:29 )

Quote: (Dobbsy @ 03 Feb. 2009, 21:25 )

Hmm... I'm starting to wonder if my original thought about leaving the rule out entirely was a better option....

It happened to one of my squads.

Instead of heading for an objective, the blood-mad mongrels made a move (full move) towards the enemy. This of course messed with my whole plan for them, and placed them in a position to get shot up.

See, I think this is a good example of it working well. If you want them to charge anyway, then it's advantageous. If you want them to hold objectives, it's a disadvantage.


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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:47 am 
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Is anything being done with this list at all?

If not, can others contribute or take it over?

Thanks in advance

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:48 am 
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While I can´t speak for Dobbsy, this is a fanlist so you are basically good to make your own (as I have long ago) or suggest any changes you believe to be worthwhile.

I´m sure any contribution is appreciated!

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:13 pm 
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OK. Thanks for that.

I will get something together...

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:11 am 
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OK here's the document we will run with for now. I'll only change once I've seen a few playtests and some solid feedback. I've also posted it on the first page of this thread.  :;):





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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:53 am 
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Thanks for that

Just some research I have been doing, I have come across this with the Cannon of Khorne from the renegades supplement:

pg. 72 "it takes a considerable time for a Cannon of Khorne to build up enough energy to fire."

For fluff reasons, should we not consider these to then have the trait of slow?

Also, I have been considering WEaters with the scout ability as well. I see you have Khorne Legionaries. Unfortunately the fluff would show that these guys would not survive in a WEaters warband as they would be ridiculed for using weapons and most likley slaughtered due to the insult. I also have much the same belief for predators. This will all make more sense once I present the findings from my research of all the older fluff and rulebooks.  

More stuff as I come across it. Any chance for Angron?

I will continue to attempt a playtest at this as well as make my own list up. Hopefully we should see a happy medium with the fluff included

Cheers....




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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:52 pm 
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[Rant]
Well there is fluff and then there is 40k fluff: In that game a horde of frothing madmen wielding only pistols and chainaxes might work, but since E:A depicts combat on a larger scale the futility of that approach is quite apparant.

Let´s face it, if the WE went to combat without prep fires, without any support, without tanks and credible AT weapons, they would have been wiped out millenia ago. IMHO WE fluff since the 2nd Ed Codex Chaos is downright inane, and personally I despise Kharn.
:p

I much preferred the Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness stuff, where their Techmarines box read:

Techmarines in the World Eater Legion are among the favoured of Khorne, as they have the specialist knowledge that allows them to use the heaviest of death-dealing devices"


To me, an elite Khorne worshipper is not to be distracted by screaming incoherently and chopping heads: If you are serious in spreading war and death, you engineer giant civil wars, blood feuds lasting centuries, massive crusades devastating sectors.

Most of all, you use any and all available tools and tactics to kill your foes. Slaying with abandon in CC is fine when the opportunity arises, but limiting one´s efforts to just that aspect is ... well, it´s dumb!

[/Rant]




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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:56 am 
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Irondeath

You do realise that the Renegades supplement was not 2nd ed. 40k but Epic right?

WEaters are a blitz force. they turn up, drop in and attack much like orks or tyranids. Thier AT items are also available with their titans, Engines of Khorne, Land Raiders, and Orbital Ships that they travel on. This is not to mention the Lord of Battles and their Daemons.

They have no official organisation and are mere warbands under a charismatic or highly psychotic lord. There is a psychosis that exists that they cannot ignore due to their neural implants. Literally, they kill whenever they get a chance or become frustrated - hence where Kharn fits in (not that I ever included him). Obviously they have themselves and they stay together, yet when the enemy presents itself, their psychosis kicks in and that is the end of it.

I think fluff is important. I like to play with it and envision battles from the books I may have read, or develop my own. Others don't care for fluff, yet I am sure they appreciate a characterful army that is balanced.




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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:02 pm 
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Sure.

Let´s just say that I´d expect the followers of the chaos god of war and strife to get their act together properly, instead of limiting their tactical options.

:;):

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:03 am 
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I don't like the forced maximum movement after a failed activation for several reasons:
As Irondeath pointed out, it limits their tactical options too much, and the maximum movement allowed while respecint unit coherency may lead to excessive rule lawering (what if there is dangerous terrain between them? Do they really have to lose 1/6th of their model because crossing dangerous terrain is 5cm shorter?).

This kind of rules didn't work well in 2nd edition, I don't think we should replicate it. Not being allowed to shoot when failing activation, and being forced to engage when possible is harsh enough IMO (after all, the opponent can very well place a formation within firefight +movement range of the transport and not of the other units, so the engage rule is already abusable by itself).

The last problem I have with this rule is that if their bloodrage is supposed to be strong enough to push them to do really stupid things, they should not run away from melee like usual guardsmen when things don't go too well.

I think a rule like what was proposed for the squat (being forced to stay for another round of melee after counting additionnal loses instead of withdrawing, or forcing another melee round instead of resolving the melee result roll if they have taken more casualties) would work better to add flavor without limiting their options too much.


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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:22 am 
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Galdred: Doesn't the fearless rule already cover that aspect of the WEaters do not run from battle or shooting?

Unsure as to what you are saying in that second part...

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:40 am 
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Indeed: I had no particular mechanism in mind, but the exemple I gave would be redundant with fearless that most of the World Eater units already have. I was just saying that if we were to give them a flavor mechanism, it would be more fitting to have them behave uniquely during an assault than before.

Edit: After some additionnal afterthought, I think it would work best to have them work like orks, but they'd get the +2 only for engage, or triple move, not double, or the following:
if they fail their activation roll by 1 or 2, they can take a blast marker, and engage the nearest formation or move twice (and not shoot). This would make it a toned down version of the ork rule.

Concerning the frenzy proposal, I like it. I was thinking about forcing them to make a second assault round if the ennemy was not broken after the first (on top of allowing them to reroll the 2 dices).





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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:00 am 
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Galdred I'm taking note of what you're saying. Thanks for your input. However, for now, as I mentioned before

I'll only change once I've seen a few playtests and some solid feedback
 :;):

Get playtesting to show me your problems with the rule.  :agree:

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 Post subject: World Eaters v1.01
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:20 am 
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hehe, my main problem with the rule is the rule lawyering it could induce, as the unit coherency and maximum move distance are contradictory.
I don't think it is imbalanced in one way or the other. It is just that after playing some Fantasy flight games, I do believe in not leaving loopholes in the rules :)

I just thought out of one way to change it while keeping the spirit of the rule :

one model in the formation would have to move as close at it can from the nearest ennemy unit without crossing impassable or dangerous terrain, while the other would have to move so that the unit retains coherency (because the maximum movement allowed while maintaining coherency is too vague IMO).

The others would have to end this movement closer than they had begun.

It is probably ill worded, but having to check the move of 1 unit would lead to less problems than having to check the configuration that brings the most units as close as possible from the target formation without breaking coherency.





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