Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

World Eaters v1.0

 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:16 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:21 am
Posts: 810
Location: United States
Quote: (Shermo @ 23 Dec. 2008, 04:08 )

I agree that most of an army shouldn't have the fearless rule, so I support the stubborn variant.

So the mighty WE berzerkers are less berserk than the Black Legion variety? Somehow that just seems wrong.

Was my suggestion to reduce the number of Berzerker units per formation while changing the AV units to Stubborn a bad idea?

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 60
Location: Spain
As I said, if you change fearless for stubborn for the WE, add something else instead to compensate.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:21 am
Posts: 810
Location: United States
I'm an E:A noob so maybe this is a somewhat glib statement, but perhaps the problem is with the Fearless rule itself? It seems to me that most specialist unit abilities don't have as many exceptions to the normal rules as the Fearless rule provides.

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 60
Location: Spain
It's even worse in 40K. Fearless is better and too many miniatures got it. I don' like the rules which negate lots of other rules. It breaks the game. Nearly every unit in a game must have the chance to flee (as small the chances may be).





Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:21 am
Posts: 810
Location: United States
Quote: (Hena @ 23 Dec. 2008, 05:23 )

Perhaps *shrug*. But that is the rule we are forced to work with.

Yeah, maybe when the rules are reviewed the big wigs (ie you Hena) could take another look at it?

And at the risk of beating my little drum to death I still haven't heard a reason why reducing the number of 'Zerkers allowed in a formation and changing the vehicles from fearless to stubborn wouldn't work.

It seems to me that if you guys do it that way you can keep the stats the same as in the Black Legion list, keep the list pure World Eater Berzerker (fluffy), and reduce the monetary cost of building the army all in one go.




_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:43 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Quote: (Malakai @ 23 Dec. 2008, 05:16 )

So the mighty WE berzerkers are less berserk than the Black Legion variety? Somehow that just seems wrong.

Was my suggestion to reduce the number of Berzerker units per formation while changing the AV units to Stubborn a bad idea?

Which is a not unreasonable position. However, if you think about it, perhaps they are less bezerk than the Black Legion varieties?

Bezerkers represent a minority in the Black Legion and don't tend to form any given warband's command structure - while their commanders are often Khorne worshippers, that doesn't always equal bezerker. So if worst came to worse they could chain up the bezerkers until they were needed to be released on the enemy - and are free to run screaming at the enemy carrying nothing but pistols and chain-axes as the rest of the Black Legion can cover them.

A World Eater warband really would be made up of nothing but "bezerkers" - but they can't just spend all their time running around screaming and chopping heads off - how exactly would they get anything done? Or even just travel to appropriate warzones? They can't persecute any kind of reasonable offensive if the entire legion runs forward to dismember the enemy in combat. Equally, they can't afford to be quite as fanatically mental as the BL counterparts. Perhaps Kharn the Betrayer has managed to survive since the Heresy running around like a nutter and chopping every head he sees, but for the majority of the Legion, at least some degree of sense of self-preservation remains. Indeed, if you recall the tale of how Kharn earned his title, he burned and murdered his bretheren for taking cover and not fighting the Emperor's Children with no regard for their own lives.

I also agree that the vehicles shouldn't be Fearless or even Stubborn. If you want to justify it, just consider that the vehicle crews abandon their crippled vehicles when under heavy fire in order to charge the enemy in hand to hand and die as a true Khorne worshipper should!





Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:04 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:45 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Manchester, UK
Just for clarity, I know it goes against the grain, but could the WE Berzerkers just be renamed to 'World Eaters', this gets around two units in similar lists sharing a name and having different profiles. Maybe there could even be a 'Chosen' upgrade that allows access to the Berzerkers unit.





Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:11 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just so you guys know, I want the World Eaters list to be mainly about WEs with support elements (e.g the legionnaires etc). i want to get as close to their fluff as i can get it without compromising the integrity of playability. This means I will not go half/half on a Berserker retinue - sorry Hena. I may go with the more random (4-8) formation size though(to simulate the WE "rag-tag" feel and I will review stubborn as a possible choice to avoid fearless - it could very well simulate what we need so I'll think more on it. Adding compensation isn't something I favour as a stop gap for loss of fearless as yet however.

Also, don't forget that if the Zerkers choose transport(which will be non-fearless) that they still have to stay in coherency when beaten in assault.... Chosen are the same and even if they use teleport instead they are fairly small formations.

Remember guys this isn't a set list yet. Try playing a few games with proxies before you make any hard judgements. It's only theory right now. V1.0 is the only a beginning.

Sorry Malakai I'm not yet going to make changes on cost of minis alone. Proxy if you need to. Like I've mentioned elsewhere in the Tau forums, a list maker shouldn't use cost of minis as a basis to write a list. As a small concern maybe. Don't worry though I'm keeping an open mind for later incarnations of the list.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:21 am
Posts: 810
Location: United States
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 24 Dec. 2008, 19:11 )

Sorry Malakai I'm not yet going to make changes on cost of minis alone. Proxy if you need to. Like I've mentioned elsewhere in the Tau forums, a list maker shouldn't use cost of minis as a basis to write a list. As a small concern maybe. Don't worry though I'm keeping an open mind for later incarnations of the list.

And you shouldn't, but when you could kill two birds with one stone (fluffy and easy to assemble) I don't see the problem.

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Well BL has Khorne Berzerkers (Black Legionaries and other Regenate Chapter Chaos Space Marines which turned to the Cult of Khorne).
WE could have World Eater Khorne Berzerkers.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: World Eaters v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 3078
Location: Bristol, UK
What is the proposal for 'stubborn'?
[EDIT: read through thread: understand now; not keen on it: sorry! (I'm of the opinion that the Chaos Faction lists be marked by thier inclusion of "Faction" [i.e. Khorne Marines] with stats changed to represent that gods style, and Cult Marines. See below.)]

Could you keep the berzerkers as being fearless but have 'normal' WE's as being more close combat oriented? CC 3+ FF 5+? A bit like the choices you're able to make in the Black Templars list?

To my thinking there IS no difference between Black Legion and World Eaters Berzerkers; are there in the stats? If so: why?

Could WE have juggernaut formations?

I've got a khornate themed chaos force i'm about to start working on so this is actually something i'm interested in seeing; i'll take another look at the conversation and army list and get back to you soon.




_________________
MoK's Painting Blog
Now Showing:
Mok's Modular Modern Messy Guard Army


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net