Thousand Sons List |
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Elias
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List  Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:45 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:13 am
Posts: 29
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Last weekend I faced the TS in a very large battle (25k per side) with the IG (Morg reported). Because of the deployment I outnumbered them (not only by the number of figures) and I faced a player with little experience. So I had many advantages but I hope my information helps a bit.
- The ?collective? RA and Fearless is really impressive but all you need is enough firepower. Don?t kill but break them. Use a lot of weapons with the Disrupt ability.
- The Silver Towers are not as tough as I thought. If they make pop ups they can?t move. Use a lot of Fighters and Bombers to hit them.
- I managed to stay out of close combat and I think it?s necessary, especially for Guards.
- In combination with a modified fearless rule (completely feraless formations have to stay where they are if broken) you have a good chance to stop them. I hate nothing more than fearless formations, I have broken before, rushing towards and between my Guards.
- Shoot their transports first.
That?s what I experienced in this battle but I don?t think it is representative because of all the advantages. At the whole I like the list, as a non-tournament list. The TS are special and if you take some of their special abilities they won?t be TS anymore.
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ortron
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:53 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Australia
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G'day all.
Sorry for the delay neal, I had a game a while ago, 2 weeks? but have been quite busy. Sadly the delay has spoilt my memory some what but this battle did turn out quite different from our earlier battles.
I again took TS against CAL's black templars and got soundly beaten.
This time the silver towers where destroyed first turn without shooting as was a good percentage of armour due to a orbital bombardment and drop pod assault. With most of my centre gone all i had left was 2 TS retinues, disk riders, 1 formation of armour and some chosen left in reserve.
I then wiped out the drop podders with the rest of my turn but that allowed the rest of the BT to advance.
By second turn all i had left was the 2 retinues and chosen. The armour and disk riders where broken and reduces to a unit or two.
For the rest of the game these units held out and refused to die however they were either broken or severly limited in movement and couldn't hold back the BT reserves. Allowing the BT to claim they shall not pass, take & hold and blitzkreig.
Though i got smashed baddly I was again impressed with the toughness of the standard infanty. They same cannot be said for their transport options and support units.
This game was a bit of a rush job so I only took units i had easily on hand. It would have been good to field some air units and deamons but this time i went without. The lack of air cost me as the BT thunderhawk annihilators tore into formations turn after turn.
So points from game:
Silver towers are fragile.. so can be stopped with the right tools
Infantry is tough but can be out manouverd when transport is destroyed/limited.
Support units need to be carefully looked after/supported by retinues otherwise they can be picked off.
finally.. take some AA next time 
cheers guys
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CAL001
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:17 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Australia
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He got his revenge last week with AMTL.
CAL
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:42 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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How do you guys think that the point values are shaping up?
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Neal
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ortron
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:53 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:48 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Australia
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We'll i think our last game illustrated silver tower's weakness and the smaller unit size of 4 makes them vunerable to breaking. I'm reasonably happy with them at 90pts. Sure some times they can look powerful and destroy huge amounts of enemy units, but a bit of arty or air attack and they quickly die.
To be honest i think i need some more games with them. The last few games we have had with them have been rather lop sidded affairs but the wins are even atm i believe. Also need to try against other types of armies.
That said, at present i'm happy. CAL may still feel the towers are undercosted but i'm happy.
Cheers
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:33 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
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A friend of me has played TS recently. Here his comentaries:
1) TS are rather difficult to kill.
2) thecoolstest units the "Silver Towers" and "Warp-Palaces" are very slow.
3) You should by a great number of "Warp-Palaces" (at the moment he builds one and will cast moulds for it vor reprodution in resin).
4) AA units are essential...
_________________ We are returned! http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
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Elias
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:16 pm |
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:13 am
Posts: 29
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It was the first time I have faced the TS. I think it?s too early but at the moment the points are Ok. I will tell you more after the next games. The one Black Legion is referring to is the TS-player I faced.
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philipc68
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:36 am |
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:04 am
Posts: 96
Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia
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Hey Neal,
would it be possible to make Horrors and Screamers part of the core list - should they be costed the same as flamers? (20 pts)
And it would be fun to add some stats for Magnus, even if it's only in the appendix. A flying daemon prince is very close but I want my 60cm beam of power back dammit 
Cheers
Philip
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:25 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Magnus for the Appendix is a good idea.
I plan to allow them to take Screamers using the stats for Daemonic Beasts as I think it's a good approximation and is already well-tested, but I'm open to suggestions.
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Neal
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philipc68
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:55 am |
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:04 am
Posts: 96
Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia
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Daemonic Beasts sounds fine to me for screamers. If I were to use horrors right now I would use them as-is and at 20 pts like other daemons. Should they be more expensive because of the ranged attack?
A minor annoyance is that in current 40k the Flamers have the long-ranged attack and the Horrors are short-ranged, exactly the opposite of the Epic rules! but I guess you must stay consistent with Black Legion and LatD.
I misremembered about Magnus - although the model has wings he doesn't fly, and the BoP is actually 100cm (!!!) and 2+ which seems a bit OTT. In Epic SM he had basically the same combat stats as a Keeper of Secrets (slightly better than a Lord of Change). I'd be happy with Keeper of Secrets stats. The BoP that's on the Silver Towers seems a little weak compared to the Lord of Change (60cm MW5+ vs 45cm 2xMW3+) - maybe Magnus would have two of them. Do you have an idea of the costs for these abilities?
Cheers
Philip
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:07 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Yeah, I don't really like the differnce between the Horror and Flamer stats, either. There's a weird history on that. Originally, the Horrors were the primary Tzeentch daemon in Black Legion until the SG cuts and word that there was no budget for new Horror minis so we needed to go with Flamers. The Appendix Horror stats are basically what they were when we stopped development on them. Flamer stat development basically started with a simple name change to the existing Horror statline and was gradually changed to the current form. The result, obviously, is that the stats are more or less backwards.
I'll likely change the Horror stats eventually. I'm thinking about lower FF capability than the Flamers but greater toughness and possibly a bit better CC to sort of round them out.
On Magnus, I was thinking something between the current Daemon Prince and the Lord of Change, maybe DC2. The Eyebolt in the SM/TL rules was also -5 or -6 armor save, iirc, so I think TK ability is in order. Although not full flight, he had the equivalent of Jump Pack ability in previous incarnations and that fits with the DP/GD wing mechanic. Cost of the Daemon Prince is ~100 once you factor in replacing a unit and LoC is probably pushing 200 once you factor in summoning gear needed. Something in the 150 point range would probably be about right.
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Neal
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:27 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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I have a revised version of the TSons 2.1 (WIP) available in doc and pdf formats.
I followed Lord I's lead on a lot of things.
It has specific TSons armor units with Fearless and Warp Flame attacks, TSons-specific Defiler version to provide a ground AA option, and an Ahriman's Chosen formation upgrade to allow a single formation to Teleport into play.
No changes to Thousand Son infantry as of yet, i.e. no ranged fire, and as of right now the Retinue is still 9 stands. Those are still potential changes.
In other words, it is still a rather expensive, low-unit count, and probably low-activation army.
I also went with the Tzeentch-specific weaponry on the Suns of Damnation titans and downgraded the firepower for the barrage weapon. The Warhound variant may still be too tough. I also think the Warlord/Reaver were a bit light on armament after the change. I switched the Warlord to CC3+/FF2+ (reversed from the Imperial Warlord) to compensate. I haven't yet done anything to the Reaver and would like to hear suggestions.
PM, post your email, or email me for a copy:
nealhunt@yahoo.com
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Neal
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:26 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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This is a crosspost from the SG boards, but I want to solicit opinions here as well.
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I've been thinking that the Warp Palace is probably a bit too expensive but there were several people claiming that it was too powerful. That led to the increase to 400. I'm leaning towards dropping it back to 350-375.
I've also been toying with the idea of adding some additional abilities to it, mostly for style. Making it a Daemonic Focus or giving it Deamonic Pact for free or giving it an Augment Summoning ability are all options - something similar to the abilities of a Chaos Altar in the L&D list, for example.
I don't think a deamon summoning package like that would be especially useful given their battlefield role, but I like it. Having, say, a 375 point Palace drop a Lord of Change and a bunch of Flamers for assault could be a good surprise. It might also be useful to be able to summon a GD "meat shield" for the Palace(s). Even if it took a couple Thrall Wizards to get enough summoning points, that's only ~150 points to add what is effectively 3DC to a 4DC unit, which is pretty decent. Ordinarily I would balk at the idea of GDs being used as cannon fodder, but the Warp Palace is supposed to be possessed by a Greater Daemon itself and would contain the most powerful of sorcerers. They might very well consider sacrificing a GD to be worth it...
If all the daemon summing ability were built into the Palace, it would also reinforce the whole "you never know what you're going to get" aspect one might expect of a Tzeentch War Engine.
Let me know what you think.
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Neal
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consectari
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:51 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 7:36 pm
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Location: On the Ohio river, USA
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As I've never played it, can't comment on points, but I am in favor of changes that will add more individual flavor.
This and the other Legion specific lists all look pretty good, with some variety and flavor, but could stand to be a little further apart.
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Morg
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Post subject: Thousand Sons List Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:34 pm |
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:33 pm
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Location: Ireland
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I would favor giving the Warp Palace a Daemonic Pact for free.
Btw, here's the Warp Palace which was used last weekend:
Comparison to Warhound
Warp Palace
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