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Hell Blade and Talon
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Hell Blade and Talon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:22 pm 
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If the weapon has Fixed Forwars fire arc it has the same range as ground based. If it has a 180? fire arc it has -15cm range.

And about flak: In Wh40k the Hydras Autocannons have the same range as Battlecannons. This would be 75cm in Epic. 60cm if you take the altitude of the flyers into account.
I guess a ground based AA weapon looses 30cm fromits range if it can fire at ground targets also.

It is not the first time is propose for AA capable weapons two separate stats.
example:
Twin Hydra Longbarelled Autocannons:
Range 75cm AP4+/AT5+
AND
Range 45cm AA5+

EDIT: Typos. And range was switched.




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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Hell Blade and Talon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:05 am 
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(BlackLegion @ Jan. 28 2008,12:22)
QUOTE
It is not the first time is propose for AA capable weapons two separate stats.

Absolutely. But what central authority is going to make that decision at this point?

No-one.

So what situation does that leave us in regards to the Hell Talon

This also strikes me as one of those situations where people are averse to an idea without attempting to test or price the unit.

The few reports I have read seem to indicate that the range of the Lascannon isn't an issue.

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rpr
 Post subject: Hell Blade and Talon
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:15 am 
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To this thread, too...
I used both Hell Blades and Hell Talons in last tournament, 3 games.

Hell Blades (200 for 3, 2x 30cm AP4+/AAT6+/AA6+) still seem fine and I strongly propose that these are made "official". This version had no save, but sv 6+ would have worked similarily (the only time they were shot they jinked anyway), and as all other fighters have at least 6+, I propose that 6+ save

Hell Talons (200 for 2, 45cm AP4+, 30cm AT4+/AA4+, 15cm 1BP IC, sv 5+) sucked in all 3 games. Should have taken something else. For those stats, I could pay 150 for 2.
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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Hell Blade and Talon
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:35 pm 
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(rpr @ Feb. 20 2008,01:15)
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Hell Talons (200 for 2, 45cm AP4+, 30cm AT4+/AA4+, 15cm 1BP IC, sv 5+) sucked in all 3 games. Should have taken something else.

Could you perhaps expand on this? What about the unit was making it not worth the point value?

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Reddeth
 Post subject: Hell Blade and Talon
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 am 
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Tried the new proposed stats for the Hellblade and Helltalon in a game against the Tau today, using the 2008 Handbook rules and lists:

The Hellblades performed well, they dish out a reasonable amount of firepower but are very vulnerable to flak with their non existant save. For 225 points they seem a decent option, and have a lot of character (the hit hard but if they take one hit themselves they are gone!). I'd definitely like to see these replace the swiftdeath in the BL list.

The Helltalons didn't do too much damage in the ground attack role, I think this is due to small formation size and 'unfocused 'weaponry (they do alright at both anti-infantry and anti-tank, but are not specialists at either). I lost one talon in the first ground attack run and the survivor only proved a nuisance value after this point.
I never tried them in an interceptor role which might well have suited them much better (30cm AA4+ lascannons become a real threat when you combine the +1 on intercept/CAP under the revised air rules). They seem slightly overpointed currently (175 for two might be better, maybe lower their save to 6+ to justify any points drop???), but perhaps I'm not using them properly yet.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has managed to get a good performance out of the Helltalons with these proposed stats and the tactics that suited them best.
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