The Daemon Prince is expensive so should be tough, with replacing a unit and the character it cost roughly between 125 and 150 points (depending on which formation it goes in).
It also doesn't get TRA or an Inv. Save so is affected by crossfire plus with sniper, MW and TK I've always found it easy enough to deal with if I need to kill it for BTS etc. whichever list I've faced them with.

never found that an insurmountable problem myself.....

break the unit, kill with blast markers, isolate DP, zap with volcano cannon

or wait till the DP is the closest unit, then snipe with volcano cannon

or shoot unit with volcano cannons until all are dead

volcano cannons!!!

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Yay, volcano cannons. I don't think it makes the list unbalanced, I think it's an oddity since it's incredibly tough and elusive being a teleporter and INF. And yes, there are ways to kill it, but if we're making amends to list why not bring it in line w/ other things its size and toughness like hive tyrants for example?

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I think the Daemon Prince is appropriately tough as is as. A Hive Tyrant is a single AV model, where as the Daemon Prince is infantry and so is the DP along with CSM / Terminator bodyguards.

Throwing out statements like 'best armour in game' etc is meaningless and could be done for any list, are there gameplay problems with it? is it that good that its spammed, broken etc

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Have no idea what this sentence means?

Anyway, if nobody else thinks it's a silly save for something in this game to have (88% against non-MW attacks / 66% against MW attacks!) then okay. Personally, I hate facing it. Even with termies you know that throwing enough assault hits against them will kill them either through failed saves (25% chance on non-MW) or with resolution. With this bloody thing it always soaks up a inordinate amount of firepower to dispose and if it's the BTS you have to do it.

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No need for a change - that's just my opinion....

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As it is, it is dubious whether it is a worthy upgrade at all...

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A chaotic question about daemon types;

Does the Chaos player forced to determine which type of daemon he gets before battle?
If not, then he only need to choose the type of the daemon when it is summoned, right? So if that daemon, let's say a bloodletter is summoned, but later returns to the pool (not destroyed, not broken, just simply returns), then can it be summoned as a plaguebearer? [Assuming there is a formation D pacted with appropiate D gods.]

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Epic Commander of the Prassium Invasion Troops 214th Regiment
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Hi,

Why are there 2 different Harbinger stats?
The common one, listed here and in other lists, has 4+ armour yet there's another inexplicably better armoured version in the Vraksian list that has 5+ RA.
Can we achieve some consistency and decide which armour value the Harbinger has?

Tee

I second the request to please clarify/confirm the Harbringer stats. The Vraksian and Red Corsairs list had it at 5+ Reinforced but this list and the compendium is newer and has it as 4+ so I assume it's been deliberately altered? I probably missed the reason, was it changed to make it a bit more vulnerable and cheaper? If it's changed I'll ask BL and E&C to update their lists pdfs to match the revised stats.

It just came up as I played Al / Admiral Tee's Red Corsairs list yesterday and shot down his Harbringer with a lucky critical with the first shot of the game.

I might give the list a playtest at some point. I have a question - does the fickle masters rule and the removal of D3 daemons from your pool on the roll of a 1 apply to greater daemons? (if you don't have enough regular demons in the pool at the time) It might just be meant to be lesser daemons but it just say 'daemon' and a greater daemon is a type of daemon and loosing D3 of them would be unfortunate.

BlackLegion said:

Only use stats and points cost from the Compendium.

Harbinger/Hell Blade/Hell Talon
If stats and costs for aircrafts are different to the Black Legion army list then assume that the stats and costs in the Red Corsairs list are the same as in the Black Legion one.

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=24901&p=472007&hilit=Harbinger#p472007

Personally I wouldn't field one without RA.

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I've done significant testing of harbinger in my Bloody Hand list, and am fairly happy with its costing and statline there. It's not the same test environment as in black legion (because it's also competing with artillery formations in my list) but even with its extra armour and statline, it's still basically never worth as much as the same number of flights of Helltalons.
It sits at the "probably still a little overpriced" level which i'm comfortable with, because better to be overpriced and adjust downwards than underpriced and raise up.

costs 400 points, statline is as follows

Udeshi Pattern Harbinger AC/WE Bomber 5+ n/a n/a DC4, Reinforced Armour, Invulnerable. Critical Hit Effect: Destroyed.
Reaper Autocannon 30cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+, FxF
Reaper Autocannon 15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+, Left Arc
Reaper Autocannon 15cm AP4+/AT6+/AA5+, Right Arc
Firebombs 15cm 6BP, Ignores Cover, FxF

so a 5+5+6+ dc4 warengine. and for what it's worth, the first time i used my painted model of it, it got blown up on its first run (and the second time, it refused to come out for the first two turns)

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That would be more like it. Couldn't it just loose bomber and get support craft like the Tau Manta and Squat Overlord? The model is roughly the size of a Manta but has no where near the amount of guns, the Overlord also drops bombs.

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