The Apocalypse template for the Tower of Skulls has the following special rule:

Reknit Form: If the Tower of Skulls inflicts more than 25 wounds in a single shooting phase, it immediately recovers one Structure Point lost earlier in the game. Naturally wounds caused by the Tower of Skulls exploding do not count.

I was wondering whether to include this in Epic under the following special rule for the War Engine datafax:

Special- Reknit Form: If the Tower of Skulls inflicts damage on more than 5 units in a single turn, it may repair one DC damage sustained on this or a previous turn. This is not possible from damage due to a critical hit destroying the Tower of Skulls whose reactor explodes.

I was wondering what people's thoughts were on adding the flavour onto the War engine.

I have not worked out a base cost as yet, however what would such an ability be worth? 50 points?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

OK, apart from getting feedback on some of the previous posts over the past 2 days (anyone else?), I have just finished the appendices with the inclusion of Angron, Tower of Skulls and the Doom Blaster; all of which have Apocalypse datasheets (Angron is still a unit however - War Engine Angron will be a future project when the bulk of the work is done).

I will have to generate the points for these vehicles as well as devise a balanced way to add them to a force if people so choose.

On the back burner for the Appendices are the rest of the Daemonic Assault Engines which appear to be going the way of the War Engine in Apocalypse (if they were to release more datasheets).

So once the points are worked out and the blurb advising how to add them to the list with the general disclaimers about how they may unbalance a list as they have not been tested, World Eaters V1.3 should be out in the very near future. It is guaranteed to bring new ideas and styles of play to the force.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

50 points seem a little cheap tbh.

Then what price would you suggest?

Any comparable skill to relate the costing to?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I'm not sure but some where between 75pts and 100pts. It does have a DC3.

I have not done the math yet, however I do not see the War Engine doing at least 5 damage in a single turn - without it really being a support in FF as well as it's own shooting.

Therefore as the Re-Knit rule would rarely take effect, it's costing would be more in line within the 10-50 point range. Math still has to be done in this respect.  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Just did the math.

Base average under best circumstances, not taking into account that troops or tanks may get saves or be in cover, and the ToS using a sustained action are as follows:

AP shots only
Enemy between 5 & 15cm: 5.33 hits
Enemy within 30cm: 4.67 hits
Enemy within 60cm: 1.33 hits

AT Shots only
Enemy within 30cm: 2.67 hits
Enemy within 60cm: 1.33 hits

So in reality, it would require an effective (or several) FF engagements (after the sustained fire action) to boost the numbers of hits. In this effect, the player would have to be extremely lucky and the opponent would have to be extremely unlucky.

You have a better chance of spending 25 points on Daemonic Pact and hoping for free daemons every Strategy roll rather than having this come off in a game.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

It just seems a little cheap to me, compared to the Imp Guard Griffons.

Just thought I would test (play) V1.3. I will report on the below after V1.3 is released





That is 15 playtests done (3 yet to be reported here). Should have 16th or more done before the end of the month. Yay!

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I went through some costing today and came up with the below for the Tower of Skulls and Doom Blasters as War Engines.

-----------------------------------------------
The Tower of Skulls was the easiest for me as Black Legion has the Decimator and the Death Wheel to make comparrisons against. In effect, I felt that it's effectiveness fell in the middle of these. This was after comparing Mv, shots, Sv and everything else

***********************************************
Khorne Tower of Skulls (Khorne) - 250 Points each
Unit size- 1

Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
WarEngine 15cm 4+ 4+ 4+

Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Balemaw Cannon         60cm 2 x AP4+/AT4+ Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc
2 x Skullreaper Cannon 30cm 2 x AP5+/AT6+ -
2 x Doomfire Cannon    15cm 2 x AP6+ -
2 x Twin Skullshredder 15cm AP5+ -

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Tower of Skulls' reactor explodes. The Tower of Skulls is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6. If the Tower of Skulls looses his last point of Damage Capacity it automatically receives a critical hit.

Notes: Invulnerable Save, Fearless, Reinforced Armour
Reknit Form: If the Tower of Skulls inflicts damage on more than 5 units in a single turn, it may repair one DC damage sustained on this or a previous turn. This is not possible from damage due to a critical hit destroying the Tower of Skulls whose reactor explodes.

-----------------------------------------------

The Doom Blaster was a little trickier, and so I made the comparison against a detachment of Whirlwinds. Please take into account the 'slow firing' ability as well as all other stats when advising feedback on these as their effectiveness in combat is one-half of what they would otherwise be.

************************************************

Khorne Doom Blaster - 175 points each
Unit size- 1-3

Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 5+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
4 x Doom Mortar 30cm 1BP* Slow-firing, Indirect Fire, Disrupt

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Doom Blasters' reactor explodes. The Doom Blaster is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.

Notes:Fearless, Invulnerable Save  

*All 4 Doom Mortars must be shot in one volley when electing to fire.

-------------------------------------------------

So I am interested in peoples thoughts on the costings and suggestions with comparisons for any changes either up or down in value.

Thanks in advance  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

How does this work in assault? Units killed or assault resolution as well?
The simpler route is just say 4dc and have a fluff note about how it knits itself back together.



Slow firing typically means 2/3's effectiveness over a weapon system without it as many games are 3 turns so firing twice instead of thrice. Of course here the short range means it lends itself to either some sort of charge or a high activation army that can stall until they come to you.



4BP is always problematic, especially in variable number formations. In essence it would be x points = 2 barrage templates, 2x points = 3 barrage templates, 3x points = 3 barrage templates. So in effect no incentive to take formations of more than one.
Since everything fires in sequence just call it a 'doom blaster array' 3bp. Easy, scales, etc.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I would say that an assault resolution would have to count if the ToS was directly involved in the CC, or it's hits via FF support were seperated and saved for seperatley. The 4DC is an interesting proposal to get away from the math. I have this idea of yours at the top of the agenda. Thanks dude  



This all sounds like I should be paying attention yet I am lost on what you are saying in this one. Surely a unit of 2 or 3 would be preferrable?


Before I go on, I should state the restriction of one selection from this new section per World Eater Berserker Unit. So each berserker unit will allow a selection of either 1 ToS or a unit of 1-3 Doom Blasters, or a Lord of Battles. This section will be apart from the War Engine/Titan section of the list. It is not part of the official list that I have been playtesting and will remain in development as a Armageddon compliant version of the list. It will all make more sense when I fibnally get V1.3 released.    

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Ok 1 Doom blaster - 4bp - 2 templates
2 Doom Blasters - 8bp - 3 templates
3 Doom blasters - 12bp - 3 templates

In essence 2 doom blades are 200% of the cost but 150% of the firepower of 1.
3 doom blasters are 300% of the cost but 150% of the firepower of 1.

Why would you get a formation of more than 1?

Conversely if its an 'array'

1 Doom Blaster - 3bp - 1 template
2 Doom Blasters - 6bp - 2 templates
3 Doom Blasters - 9bp - 3 templates

You see how the latter scales and the former doesn't?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Tower of skulls, what is it supposed to do? And what do its weapons compare to? (They seem a little odd stats wise, especially the rapid firing main cannon?)

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

TRC

You make alot of sense. Leave this one with me as I am thinking I will come back with your idea with a points cost (most likley 150 points per unit). I will need to make some comparrisons




I believe the 2 x shots are to represent it being more than a 1 shot slug rather than it being a rapid fire weapon. In reality I would like to see this as a blast template. I will do the math on this one too to see what I come back with.

Thanks for the assistance dude  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats