Quote: (LeanonRuss @ Oct. 03 2009, 00:32 )
The "Bloodrage" rule I believe should be scraped.
 You say that Khorne are in your face army and should always engage.  OK, dont allow khorne units to Overwatch, sustain and marshal and must always move on a hold action.  >
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Argh. First time poster, and your a critic!
Welcome Russ. Glad you finally got on. You will like these lists alot.
OK, to tackle some of these.
For the above one, what reduce the whole army to a Charge only force? What a boring and predictable game. I would not play such a list myself. It has to be strategic and play within the rules. The fact that you have not beaten this army yet would show that it does has some strategy other than the charge. I will take your points on-board however, as I do not believe in neglecting any feedback I receive. Just think about how the force would play and why people would want to play it or against it if it was so one dimensional.
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Points for berzerkers increased.  Reason: Twice as effective as normal CSM and when combined with dreadclaws even more so and dont forget Bloodrage.  Points hike for dreadclaws as above reason.
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Two things above, remember they do not shoot and have a 5+ FF. Please compare these to loyalist assault marines and then come back to the suggestion. They are not to be compared to CSM as they fullfill a different role. If anything, compare them to Khorne Berserkers if you must and the fact that you get a discount for buying in bulk. Also notice that there is a 25 point hike on dreadclaws if you wish to use that tactic. Black Legion has these at 10 points a pod!  in reality, you are paying 35 points more than that list to field them. How much more expensive do you want them to be?
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As a comparision a chaos raptor is 35 points and gets 1x 3+ attack. No bloodrage or stubborn but yes has jump packs.  But a khorne bezerker has 2 3+ attacks and above traits and is 30.1 points each.
You run your raptors across a board and I will run my Berserkers and we shall see why your 4.9 points is more effective on a strategic level. Remember, they used to be Fearless with 1 attack at 2+. These guys also suffer with removing Blast Markers on a hold action which they cannot take. I would appreciate apples compared with other apples.
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Just a thought for now,
Russ
That's cool man. Just get some further comparisons that are more alike to form the basis of your findings in the future. Morgan and I have worked on this lists for months now and I can assure you we can justify our point ratings comparable to just about every other list out there.
The one being considered at the moment is hiking the bike retinue up to 225 points. So it is a constant work in progress
Cheers dude ÂÂ
 
Points for berzerkers increased. Reason: Twice as effective as normal CSM and when combined with dreadclaws even more so and dont forget Bloodrage. Points hike for dreadclaws as above reason. As a comparision a chaos raptor is 35 points and gets 1x 3+ attack. No bloodrage or stubborn but yes has jump packs. But a khorne bezerker has 2 3+ attacks and above traits and is 30.1 points each.
