Speaking of the Brass Scorpion, your stats are WAY off the apocalypse ones.

For starter, why is it movement 15cm? In 40k it's a superheavy walker, meaning it can move 12", and it also charges 12". That's more like 30cm movement (or 25cm for the sake of gameplay)

Also, in combat in apoc it has 3 S10 attacks ignoring armour and doing extra damage to vehicles, yet you haven't given it extra macro attacks and only cc 4+? Yours is worse in combat than a dreadnaught.

In Apoc the scorpion cannon is a megabolter with less shots (10 instead of 15), but you have it as a couple of autocannons?

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I can't speak to the other points, but 40k movement rates are a bit simplified to say the least. Stompers are also super-heavy walkers, and I doubt anyone thinks they should move 30cm in EA.


Edit: BTW... how do super-heavy walkers get a 12" assault in Apoc?

Stompas don't charge 12" though.

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Background wise it's supposed to be fast, running quickly into combat. That's what makes up for the
rubbish armour and low DC.

Quote from the apoc rules: "The brass scorpion can cover all manner of terrain at great speed"

Edit: BTW... how do super-heavy walkers get a 12" assault in Apoc?

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Ahh, I see now. I didn't read the Brass Scorpion closely enough, it's a special ability. I'll let the informed and the involved continue while I sit over there... blushing.

Actually the stats for the Brass Scorpions Scorpion Cannonare derived from my Wh40k-Stats-to-Epic System.
An Autocannon is S7 Ap4 Heavy2 which translates to AP5+/AT6+.
The Scorpion Cannon is S6 Ap3 Heavy 10. The higher rate of fire increases the AP value to 4+ and enables two shots in Epic. The better Ap-value in 40k has no impact on it's Epic stats (at Ap2 or 1 it would gain Lance on its AP-shot in my system).
So my stats for the Scorpion Cannon are 2x AP5+/AT5+ (yes AT5+, i have to correct that because earlier version of my system didn't took in account that Primary Weapons pierce armour as if they where Ordnance).

Note: Under my system the Vulcan Mega-bolter has 3x AP5+/AT5+.

For the movement: Well i simply overlooked that Super-heavy Walkers move 12" instead of 6"    But the example with the Stompa is valid. But i could give it Speed 20cm. It already has Infiltrate.

And well, i'm happy because it's the first time someone actually commented on the Brass Scorpions stats  

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I think you're better off comparing to more similar weapons for stat conversions. The megabolter is the closest, so that's where you should start. Either 2xAP3+/AT5+ or 3xAP3+/AT5+ would be most appropriate.

Megabolter as 3xAP5+/AT5+? That's equivilent to 3 autocannon shots (AP-wise anyway), but the megabolter fires the equivilent of 7.5 autocannon shots! Your system is flawed here, sorry.

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If the majority wants it could make it a 2/3 Vulcan Mega-bolter (because it has 10 out of 15 shots). So: 2xAP3+/AT5+.

So with this modification and Speed 20cm is it worth 200pts?
Anyone want to use it with this stats and post a battle report?  

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I'm planning to include the scorpion in my Khorne Renegades list, so it'd be nice if we were on the same page with the stats. Your original stats weren't worth anything like 200 points.

Like I also said, the CC abilities of yours leave much to be desired...

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Zombo could you post your full unit stats?

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Hmmm i re-read the specific rule for super-heavy walkers. I CC they are threated as Gargantuan Creatures. So they ignore armour saves and roll 2D6 for armour penetration. Wow    Totally overlooked this part. I really should stop that "develope stats on the whim" habit of mine and read more closely what a units abilities are. Not only the stats on it's datasheet.
But well the Brass Scorpion doesn`t have an impressive amount of attacks (3). So what about +1 Extra-Attack, Macro-weapon and leave it at CC4+?

To summarise:

Brass Scorpion
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
War Engine 20cm 4+ 4+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Scorpion Cannon 30cm 2 x AP3+/AT5+ -
2 x Hellmaw Cannon 15cm AP4+/AT6+ and - Ignore Cover
                              Small Arms Ignore Cover
Demolisher Cannon 30cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover
Claws (base contact) Assault Weapons Macro-weapon, Extra Attacks (+1)

Damage Capacity 2. Critical Hit Effect: The Brass Scorpions reactor explodes. The Brass Scorpion is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffers a hit on a D6 roll of 6. If the Brass Scorpion looses his last point of Damage Capacity it automatically receives a critical hit.

Notes: Invulnerable Save, Fearless, Infiltrators, Walker. The Hellmaw Cannons can shoot and be used to confer the Ignore Cover ability to the unit’s firefight value but they don’t give any extra attacks.

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Oh and the Hellmaw Cannons are identical to the Inferno Cannon of the Hellhound but with better Armourpiercing (= ignores power-armour and worse saves) and same range as any other flamers. So should i delete the AT6+ value or leave it?

And somewhere i posted Epic stats for the Tower of Skulls from Apocalypse.

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I'd lose the AT6+ for simplicity.

Here's my version:



Let's see if we can cobble an agreed version together in order to have the same rules in both lists.

As you can see, I went for 25cm movement instead of 20+infiltrator. I'm not enormously bothered which way we go on this one.

I went with CC3+, because it's Khorne! It just doesn't seem right for a Khorne Daemon engine to have CC4+. It's very fragile, so it needs to be worthwhile throwing it forwards since it'll likely die in the process.

I didn't go for ignore cover firefight, because of the issues with the allocation. These should hopefully be resolved by the current rules review, so it could happily go back on once that's decided.

I don't like your idea of always causing a critical when dying, that's not warranted imho, but I did make the critical more deadly to represent the explosive nature of the scorpion.

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@Speed: Me too iirc Infiltrator on a WE was even frowned upon as a suggestion for the Tyranid Trygon because of barging someunits up to 40cm away from its parent formation. So 25cm movement withoot Infiltratos is ok.

@CC: Well it really isn't better than a Defiler (same WS, S, I and A). A Defiler with outcitted addition CC-arms has more attacks than the Brass Scorpion. The Brass Scorpion advantage is that it rolls 2D6 for armour penetration. And it is already a WE so it has 2 base attacks and the extra MW attack all at 4+. I thin CC4+ is enough to wreck some carnage.

@Hellmaw Cannons: ok let's drop the AT-value and leave the Ignore Cover-FF until the rules review.

@Critical: The Brass Scorpion really loves it to go boom when killed. How about getting a crit on a 5+ instead of the 6 and else leave the crit the same as is (it's the same crit as the baneblade)?

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I'm just not a fan of unique special rules where normal rules could be used instead. I don't really think it needs a special rule for the critical; a more deadly critical is equally good at showing how explosive it is.

I guess CC4+ is ok, it just seems wrong

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