I'm with novemberrain and Hena here. There is no reason to change the list. It does work (even if limited) and people have built armies for several years around the existing list. Small changes here and there is ok, for balance reasons, but fundamentaly redesigning how the list is built would be bad.

Trying to make new additional more focused lists on the other hand that's the way to go

bloody threadomancy.

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My shifting projects

? ? ?
This thread was started yesterday.

I'm in favor of the proposed split. At the moment the LatD list suffers from overly restrictive list construction and a large number of un used units precisely because of the plus-kitchen-sink design.

Stripping out a load of the less lost-and-damnedy unit choices would allow for relaxing of restrictions and would bring to prominence what should be one of the core units, namely daemon engines.


In my ideal LatD list, the rag tag infantry would have access to light vehicle transports only, maybe With a flatbed technical type unit for a bit of shooting/shitty AA. They would be supported by daemon engines on various formations.

huh. my mistake. I thought we'd been all over this subject before before deciding to let well alone, at least until viable competing lists have been finished.

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+1

As cool as the Vraksian list concept is (who can argue with CSM allies and malcadors), the version I've seen is as much of a "kitchen sink" list as LatD may be and Krieg is. Almost everything the IG can take is in there, PLUS those rare tanks. Lets not take an established list and and break it up in favor of a bunch of different ones with potentially worse problems.

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Suggestion: Leave the LatD list alone.

Then finish a traitor guard list, a cultist list, and a daemon world list. Ignore any cries of "the LatD list already does this!" while making those lists.

When we have 4 approved lists we can start talking about scrapping a list.

+1

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+1 (o:

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Let there be code.

This does sound the better and less controversial path.

Personally I wouldn't mind loosing the traitor elements in the LaTD list (I'm more of a fan of the chaotic and demonic elements) but I have two bugbears with the existing list:

I'd like to see Altars made cheaper so they're more usable and the list could more viably use multiple Altars for AA instead of Hydras. Though they're tough at DC3 Reinforced Invulnerable their slow movement and the fact that they can get picked out and targeted separately due to being WE means they are likely to be killed and the formation has the significant disadvantage of giving up both garrisoning and moving fast to have one. I prefer them to cost around 100, either as is, or with only D2 attacks instead of D3. Allowing 1-2 of them in the army to garrison could be another possible option.

I'd also like more flexibility in the list choosing, one core to one of anything else is very limited. I'd prefer it if maybe a coven allowed 1 cultist support formation (scouts, aircraft, ect) AND 1 demon engine formation.

The Vraks list is a good list, I've played it some and used it a tournament and I believe 1-2 others have too. I've mainly run it tank heavy using the new tanks and it plays very differently to IG due to the Malcador variants, Minotaurs and Valdor tanks being slow with movement 15cm and therefore able to garrison. I'd have left out the Harbringer and probably the Deathstrikes from the list, but the other options are all appropriate by the Vraks books. So long as a list is balanced and fitting I have no problem whatsoever with there being a lot of options.

When this day comes, I will buy everyone on this thread an alcoholic beverage!

Can we use this thread to discuss minor changes to the list instead?

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Shouldn't that go in a different thread?

I'm guessing Steve's going to want to focus on one list at a time. My non-exisiting vote ('cause I'm currently busy with Necrons and don't even have a chaos army ) goes to either a) finishing one of the Traitor Guard lists or b) making a cultist list.

Minor changes aren't going to fix the list though.

I agree with Ulrik; if you want your kitchen sink LatD list as is then fine, lets freeze that and start a new list of chaos worshiping hordes. Strip out all the IG stuff from the LatD list and add in more flexibility and demonic choices. I'd even be willing to help I a serious way with something like that.

Fine by me - I am all in favour of new lists if people want them / will build and play them

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Agreed, LATD should be frozen and more strongly themed lists produce to supersede it

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