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LatD

 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:29 pm 
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Indeed, they should either all get them or none should.

I think that for simplicity the units that don't get it should have it added, if playtesting were to show that any of the engines which receive it are given too much of a boost (maybe looking at the LoB and Plague Tower) then they can have minor point tweaks to compensate.


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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:39 pm 
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I think it can be justified on Tzeentch Daemon Engines (sorcery and auras, for example, could provide such a save), but I agree that as far as all the other Daemon Engines are concerned that they should all have an invulnerable save, or none of them should (except for the Tzeentch Engines - see above).

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:53 pm 
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The Wh40k Apocalypse datasheet of the Silvertower of Tzeentch is the only* Daemon Engine which has somekind of protection other than its armour. It has a 4+ Cover Save (and all units withing 6" too).
But then it is a 2DC WarEngine too  :grin:

*All other have "Possessed" which as i stated is that they ignore all Gun Crew Shaken and Driver Stunned results which make up 1/3 of the Vehicle Damage Table.
The exception is the Plage Tower of Nurgle which is just a DC6 War Engines without being possessed.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:13 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ Dec. 28 2009, 22:53 )

The Wh40k Apocalypse datasheet of the Silvertower of Tzeentch is the only* Daemon Engine which has somekind of protection other than its armour. It has a 4+ Cover Save (and all units withing 6" too).
But then it is a 2DC WarEngine too  :grin:

*All other have "Possessed" which as i stated is that they ignore all Gun Crew Shaken and Driver Stunned results which make up 1/3 of the Vehicle Damage Table.
The exception is the Plage Tower of Nurgle which is just a DC6 War Engines without being possessed.

Pah!  Apocalypse was preceded by Epic, so why should we pay any attention to it  :p .

More seriously, I guess that's a fair point, but people are complaining that the Tzeentch fliers are underpowered as it is, so taking their invulnerable save away probably would not go down well, hence why I suggested bringing all the others into line, one way or another, and leaving these unchanged.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:20 am 
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..I thought a Plague Tower originally contained a bound Great Unclean One, about as possessed as it gets!


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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:30 am 
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In the Lord of Battle there is bound a Greater Daemon of Khorne (and it also is Possessed in Wh40k).
No clue of the original Plague Tower rules for Epic.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:36 am 
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I'm sure that the Plague Tower was possessed by a Greater Daemon of Nurgle in the original Space Marine rules, but I cannot remember which White Dwarf they were in to check this.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:43 am 
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WD188*: I have it in front of me and, yes, PLagutowers are possesed by a Greater Demon :-)
The Khorne engines are, in my opinion one of the poorer choices of demon engines: although tough they're not really as flexible as other demon engines, especially given their high points cost.

(*actually the only White Dwarf that I own! It was the first one I bought and the one that got me into wargaming: it's gota wicked epic batrep in it but I've no idea why i chose to start collecting 40k tyranids instead!)

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Quote: (Man of kent @ Dec. 29 2009, 17:43 )

in my opinion one of the poorer choices of demon engines: although tough they're not really as flexible as other demon engines,

flexible means nothing as you are being driven into the ground by spikes and big brass wheels  :laugh:

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:57 pm 
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Quote: (Man of kent @ Dec. 29 2009, 08:43 )

(*actually the only White Dwarf that I own! It was the first one I bought and the one that got me into wargaming: it's gota wicked epic batrep in it but I've no idea why i chose to start collecting 40k tyranids instead!)

'Cos you walked into a GW store and fell under their clever jedi mind trick and walked out with what they said to buy  :laugh:


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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Ah, thanks for the White Dwarf reference, I can look it up later.

Khorne Daemon Engines are not noted for their flexibility as Frogbear has stated, and at least you can give them a variety of orders now, which wasn't the case in Space Marine.

Given that the Plague Tower is possessed by a Greater Daemon, surely it would have to have an invulnerable save, assuming we are sticking to the criteria that possession awards an invulnerable save?

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Quote: (Mephiston @ Dec. 29 2009, 11:57 )

Quote: (Man of kent @ Dec. 29 2009, 08:43 )

(*actually the only White Dwarf that I own! It was the first one I bought and the one that got me into wargaming: it's gota wicked epic batrep in it but I've no idea why i chose to start collecting 40k tyranids instead!)

'Cos you walked into a GW store and fell under their clever jedi mind trick and walked out with what they said to buy  :laugh:

Actually I got that mag from a newsagents: but you're right M, nids were the newest shiniest things around: I only started playing epic when i got uber excited about E:40k being released...but, back on track...

Yes, the criteria for getting an invlnerable save is being possesed then all Demon Engines should have one.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Why not have them use Hellblades and Helltalons? They are the default chaos flyers surely and are the flyers available to the traitor guardsmen in the Vraks books and to Lost and the Damned in W40k, Thunderbolts and Marauders are not options for them. Please don’t make the Tzeentch flyers the only flyer too! If I am playing my Tzeentch/Slaanesh list I will then have no access to flyers  :disagree:  
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Just to throw a random idea out there (I reckon it'll be shot down in flames), but what about making the Daemon Engines generic? 'Daemonic Fighters', 'Daemonic Artillery' etc. I think the war engine choices could remain god-specific (so no Nurgle-esque lords of battle).

I really dislike this and prefer the character and flavour as now. It also differentiates the different styles and themes of armies well rather than having one list of stuff to pick the most competitive combination of everything from.


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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:05 am 
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What's the problem with Tzeeentch fliers? I've faced them (never used them) and they were pretty mean, all the IC helps them a fair bit.

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 Post subject: LatD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:43 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ Dec. 27 2009, 13:53 )

Quote: (Steve54 @ Dec. 27 2009, 12:28 )

Zombies - change to 3+2 D6. This makes them somewhat more reliable as a unit choice - you will get minimum 5 rather than 3.

How about d6+7? Less random that way.

Nah Chaos = random = good :)

I plan to take the maximum two units of Plague Zombies (or other similar units I count as them; Nurglings, Slaaneshi Spawnings) in every LaTD list I ever play, whether they perform well or not, because having such a variable element to them makes them so strongly chaotic and random that they are very characterful for chaos. If they are underperforming at present increasing the number by 3 sounds good and is an added bonus for me (though I'll now need 12 more stands of them on top of the 72 I have already).


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