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Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds

 Post subject: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 1:49 am 
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Here is the latest update to the list. V1.5 to Dark Mechanicum (Developmental)

I have been balancing the list back and fourth and believe I have now arrived at a point where it’s in a good place to be thoroughly tested.
I started working on this idea a few months ago, Initially it was going to be a Chaos Knight list. But it grew into a Dark Mechanicum list supported by Renegade Knights and Daemon Engines such as Forgefiends, Decimator Walkers and more.

I have taken some creative liberties with some unit names and weaponry
due to gaps in detailed lore on The Dark Mechanicum.
The Armies on this list, are thought to be found on
lost Forgeworlds swallowed by the warp a long time ago.

I’ve opted to now remove previous versions of the list, as I view this to be the final draft
for its official starting point.
If you like this Idea, do share your thoughts , inputs, critique and ideas.


Attachments:
File comment: Infiltrators roller back to FF 5+
You may now only replace up to three warpstalkers with infiltrators

Drake Preatorians unit size down to 5 from 6

Forge fiends formation cost 225p up from 200p

Dreadblades formation change
Two Dreadblades 275
From one Dreadblade 150p
Can now only add War dog Thralls as upgrade.

Drones formation cost change to 175p up from 150p

DM v1.6.pdf [1.94 MiB]
Downloaded 59 times
File comment: There is an error I will have corrected next time I update , but Infiltratiors as they read now seem to have two FF First Strike
attacks , but should have the first strike attack assigned to their EA, much like roughriders .

Dark Mechanicum v1.5.pdf [1.94 MiB]
Downloaded 113 times


Last edited by Cyguns on Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 23 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:47 am 
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Dark Mechanicum
the Forgotten Forgeworlds

A while back, as I was googling around on the internet as on does, I came across 28mm scaled Chaos knights. Despoilers , Desecrators and Rampagers, surrounded by War Dogs. Turned out there had been a fairly fresh release of a new 40k codex for these Renegade kniggits. I loved their look and atmosphere and wondered if there were any such units represented in our dear 6mm scale. Looking around I found the Chaos knights list and was delighted , only to realize it had only Hell-scourges and other such abominations. Even though cool in their own right, I was left disappointed.

So, I thought, I guess I’ll just have to make them myself. I began reading through the 40k codex , researched on the 40k lexecanum , YouTube and audiobooks. And slowly started to forge stats for these Fallen Knights.

During my research the Dark Mechanicum hinted of its existence here and there. And Skitarii started to tickle my fancy as well. So I had the daunting Idea of building a list where you could field both. Either run it as pure Chaos Knights list or pure Dark Skitarii or side by side.

I soon realized this was going to be much too difficult if it was going to have a decent chance of getting anywhere at all. So I decided to make it a Dark Skitarii or Dark Mechanicum list, heavily backed up by Renegade Knights and Daemon Engines.

So, now I needed more info on the Dark Mechanicum , and that proved pretty hard to come by. There is not that much fluff on them, and what there is , is quite broad and general.

So I had to fall back on Ad Mech as a foundation. This meant to a large part take Skitarii and just make them bad. Then add Daemon engines and Fallen Knights to the mix. I’ve taken some creative liberties in some names of units and weaponry, that will atleast serve for now.

So, the sub title of the list “the forgotten forgeworlds” sets this list as a force located on an old forge world somewhere, in a dark corner of space ,swallowed by the warp back in the 30k days. We see old rusted and tainted Krios and Triaros patterns on here, along with Warp infested Dune crawlers and corrupted Dust Stalkers. These ancient old Forgeworlds have a few Fallen Knight houses sworn to them as well as lone Dreadblades , knights gone mad , corrupted by Chaos and no longer belonging to any house. Instead they fight for the Tech-Hereteks in return for weapons and maintenance. Also these Hell-Forges spit out foul Deamon engines , such as Defilers , Forgefiends and Desecrator Walkers.
A force of Chaos Undivided under the cogs of the machine god.
What you will not see on this list, is pure Deamons. Here the Deamons are found inside the twisted metal of Old servitors , Robots and Kataphrons.
It will hopefully have a nice unique flavor, and the flexibility to house different play styles and strategies.

One major unique thing to this list is the “Dark Magos special rule” I found during my Skitarii dive, that a Skitarii Supreme commander , sits safe in his throne , controlling and overseeing his forces remotely. Capable of seeing through his warriors eyes and even take control of them directly , a true puppet master.
So I gave the list a free , off board Supreme Commander, that will even increase the chance of success on a re-roll.

All input and critique is welcome

Death to the Emperor!!









Here’s some imagery


Attachments:
File comment: Forgefiend
0EAE5E3D-2D1C-4AE4-AEBA-A8B5D6E45178.jpeg
0EAE5E3D-2D1C-4AE4-AEBA-A8B5D6E45178.jpeg [ 802.38 KiB | Viewed 2320 times ]
File comment: Tainted Robot
19C6DB75-F219-4908-BC66-9E2E52107F31.jpeg
19C6DB75-F219-4908-BC66-9E2E52107F31.jpeg [ 924.24 KiB | Viewed 2320 times ]
File comment: Triaros Transport
0BFFDCA3-3B04-4AE8-85BA-D7841DEF7DF1.jpeg
0BFFDCA3-3B04-4AE8-85BA-D7841DEF7DF1.jpeg [ 740.86 KiB | Viewed 2320 times ]
B04C9642-95F2-46D5-B88D-910F3C882813.jpeg
B04C9642-95F2-46D5-B88D-910F3C882813.jpeg [ 534.95 KiB | Viewed 2320 times ]
F87A9B82-0511-434F-863B-3B43DE867D82.jpeg
F87A9B82-0511-434F-863B-3B43DE867D82.jpeg [ 415.51 KiB | Viewed 2320 times ]


Last edited by Cyguns on Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 2:59 am 
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And


Attachments:
File comment: Decemator Walker
BC7A456F-F68D-4F7A-9181-693BC5E0FADB.jpeg
BC7A456F-F68D-4F7A-9181-693BC5E0FADB.jpeg [ 993.69 KiB | Viewed 2319 times ]
File comment: Tyrant
9CB8284A-F8D2-46BA-A31E-875B24E1113B.jpeg
9CB8284A-F8D2-46BA-A31E-875B24E1113B.jpeg [ 1.41 MiB | Viewed 2319 times ]
File comment: Warped Kataphron
753E68E2-A4CA-4AF2-B003-5BDFE0FC7296.jpeg
753E68E2-A4CA-4AF2-B003-5BDFE0FC7296.jpeg [ 1.09 MiB | Viewed 2319 times ]
File comment: Dark Rangers and Warpcrawler
8ED29671-D6C6-4EE0-963C-F9A9D76F914F.jpeg
8ED29671-D6C6-4EE0-963C-F9A9D76F914F.jpeg [ 1.04 MiB | Viewed 2319 times ]
File comment: War Dog
4C97597B-BBF4-4B6D-B70C-F0CB099B6473.jpeg
4C97597B-BBF4-4B6D-B70C-F0CB099B6473.jpeg [ 772.66 KiB | Viewed 2319 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:11 pm 
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I like this idea quite a bit. Haven't had a chance to dig in but if you didn't already I'd suggest that the stats are probably married up with the AT list from EpicUK (for base modern Knight stats) and Norto's really great take on modern Ad Mech in his Explorator list. Perhaps you already have in such a case, go forth with your awesomeness.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:56 am 
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If anyone would feel so inclined, and would like to try this list out , I have made a crude but functional Army builder in google.docs.

Follow the link to the document, once you’ve opened it in your google.docs, make a copy of it.
You will be able to input values in your copy. It’s pretty straight forward from there, you insert numbers into the F column , and a few neighboring cells for upgrades.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... nfc28/edit


Last edited by Cyguns on Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:30 pm 
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After a few test games nothing so far has popped out as too strong. Rather the formation sizes makes them fairly vaulnerable, I added a unit to the Heavy Assault formation and the Speartip formation to try and balance them out a bit. I’ve also increased the Triaros transport capacity to 4 inf units and made Dark Preatorians take up two slots, also doing away with Servitors taking 1/2 slots. The Triaros is supposed to be a pretty Heavy duty transport, and having so many units stack up in them I`m now seriously thinking about addingit RA, to its current 4+ , and make it a 4+/4+ , mainly my concern is MW, currently , Hitting it with a MW , would wipe it and 4 units along with it in a snap, and such it would be mighty risky to use them at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:37 am 
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This is a cool list!!!! Please post up a thread of your army project if you have 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Norto wrote:
This is a cool list!!!! Please post up a thread of your army project if you have 1.


Glad you like it! So far I’ve only played it on a simulator myself, but I have now begun slowly printing and buying models for a real army. I’ve started test painting individual units and thought I’d start posting them up when I’ve got a bit more to show for. I’ll link to the thread here when I do.

If you try the list, I’d much appreciate any thoughts and take aways, no full battle reports are essential at this stage I feel. I will however try and post up my own first BattleRep fairly soon, just to try and get things moving a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:04 pm 
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I decided to start it up now, why not, it’s early days but here’s what I’ve warped out so far.

https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... =7&t=34312


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Mechanicum, Forgotten Forgeworlds
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:36 pm 
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I hope you're still working on this list. It seems to be the only chaos list that includes the newer 40k scale daemon engines, so I'd love to see it progress. This is a totally random spread of thoughts I had reading through the army list. I haven't played any games with it, so this is all purely theoretical, but hopefully useful.

Four selection categories feels like too much. Chaos lists just use three, and most of the rest use two. I'd suggest core/assault/hellforged and reshuffle where things are assigned. The big draw of the list (for me at least) is daemon engines, and right now I have to pad out any list with skitarii to get the cool stuff. Consider doing what the Iron warriors list does and making at least some daemon engines a core choice, even if an expensive one.

In the formations section you refer to "warpstalkers" but in the unit stats there's no such thing. There's "Darkstalkers," which I'm guessing are the same unit under a different name?

Why does the hellforged upgrade let you add defilers or fiends but not decimators?

Consider allowing the servitors upgrade to let you buy more than two stands, to really beef up a unit you want to hold ground. Alternatively, consider a core formation of "revenant adsecularis" that are 6+ armor, 6+ FF and CC, no special weapons. They could be a pure chaff unit to hold points and clog up enemy assaults, which seems fluff appropriate for dark mech.

Possessed Kataphrons feel like an odd choice to me. They're slow, with short range guns that only target AV, and have stats that suggest they want to be in melee. Yet they also have sniper, suggesting maybe they're meant for taking out tough armored targets? I'm just very confused what their intended target is.

The Warpcrawler seems very good for it's price. Compare it to the chaos predator. For the same price, you're losing one point of armor and FF value and 5cm speed for a 3+/3+ shot at 45cm, and a secondary heavy bolter equivalent. Then you tack on the invulnerable save and the leader rule. The warpcrawler's gun lets it hit on 4's when doubling for a 95cm threat range against anything on the table, while also boosting nearby infantry. As it stands it seems silly not to include a warpcrawler in every formation that can take one, since they can keep up with a triarios, provide another leader, and add good long range punch. If I had to suggest a fix I'd tone down the gun. I like the idea of a support scuttler following the dark Skitarii to keep their programming in line, but making that support also a great anti-everything weapon seems like a bit much.

Krios vs Krios venator seems wonky balancewise. For barely any more points you swap 2 AP5+/AT6+ shots for a single MW5+ at the same range. It seems like that would be a harder trade to make if the rift blasters hit harder, thus making the tradeoff one of lots of hits that can be saved vs few hits that can't but right now the Venator seems a lot better.

Two comments about Decimators. First, why do they always have to take a siege claw? In the 28mm game they can double up guns, and their closest parallels in other lists, (loyalist) dreadnoughts, can also take a missile launcher/lascannon combo. Why require one fist and one gun? Secondly, I feel like decimators and defilers fill the same roll in this list. They're both 20cm units with both assault and shooting potential. The decimator loses out on infiltrator, making it less of a competitor for close combat, and also can only choose one gun from the list compared to defilers having a gun for all occasions. I'd suggest dropping Decimators to 60 points to make them slightly more competitive against defilers to make up for their comparatively greater specialization.

I have the same question about decimator loadouts applied to knights: why do they all have to take one melee weapon? I'm not as familiar with new tabletop knight rules, so this might be a limitation they have, but it seems odd that I can't make a shooty knight.

Forgefiends have the same problem as the Krios in my eyes: the hades seems totally outclassed by the ectoplasma cannon. I'd consider either adding something like disrupt or an extra shot to the hades (since it has pinning on the TT) or charging points to upgrade to the ectoplasm cannon.

The Hell-Forged Karcanos seems like an odd beast to me. A full unit only puts out a 4BP barrage, but also has 8 ignores cover shots (which only hit on 5s). It's like it wants to be a unit that burns a whole company of guardsmen off a point they're dug in on, but also wants to stay far away to avoid getting assaulted. Also, going by the tabletop the lightning blasters are 18" range, so it seems very odd that they've acquired the range of a lascannon. Not saying you're not allowed any creative liberties, but that strikes me as a strange change.

There's practically no AA options. The only sorces of AA are icarus warpstalkers and war dogs. There's also zero fliers. Thematically I think adding in a helldrake flight, statted as doomwings, would make perfect sense as a solution to both problems. If you wanted it would probably also make sense to include Hell blades and hell talons like every other chaos list.

I'm torn on the pricing of triarios. On the one hand, I can see that putting 4 units of infantry into one transport is a lot of eggs in one basket, and thus think it's fair to keep them fairly cheap as losing one will hamstring the unit speed. On the other hand, regular skitarii have to pay ~100 points (125 for chimeras, 75 for a gorgon) to mechanize their basic infantry, while this list only has to pay 50. On the subject of the triarios, at 28mm the volkite sentinel has a 15 inch range, which seems like it should be a small arms weapon. Maybe make it extra attacks +1 with disrupt to help the Triarios contribute more in an assault? Likewise, the Mauler is a really nasty anti-infantry gun at 28mm, with Strength 6 AP3. Making it a 6+/6+ seems weird, since it's strictly better than a heavy bolter, which is pretty universally 5+ AP. Maybe 4+/6+? That's how its statted in the Australian Heresy rules.

It might be easier to make the Dark Rangers with Transuranic Arquerbuses (aquerbii?) a separate unit in the quick reference. Their formation would be four dark rangers and two dark marksmen or however you choose to name them, and then you wouldn't need the note in the entry about "1 in 3 dark rangers have a transuranic arquerbus." That would also make it clear which stands are the ones firing transuranic shots.

On the topic of rangers and vanguard, I feel like there isn't much differentiating the two right now. Vanguards are AP only with the sonic blaster whereas rangers have the standard AP5+/AT6+ gun, but both have a 30 cm range. I might suggest removing the special weapons from vanguard and making their small arms EA+1. You might need to shrink their formation size though, because 16 attacks in an assault for 225 points might be a little too much, I'm not sure. That would make rangers the standoff shooting guys who want to be support fire for an assault, and vanguards the guys who want to launch the assault, making them a little more distinct.

I like the idea behind the supreme commander being off the table, representing a magos in orbit or in a bunker, but I feel like it gives the army an unfair boost over other forces. Every other list pays ~100 points for the supreme commander reroll and can lose it if the unit gets sniped. This list gets it for free, and can't lose it to clever enemy tactics. Maybe consider making the Supreme Commander some kind of heavy command tank? Like a baneblade chassis with decent guns and supreme commander for ~300-350 points?

The list seems very short on ways to put down barrages. Maybe stealing the fantasy hellcannon would fit thematically, a daemon bound into an artillery piece? 3 models as a support formation, 2BP each with indirect, 5+ armor, 4+CC and 6+ FF? Fantasy Hellcannons would occasionally go crazy and try to murder the enemy by hand and actually had decent CC stats, so that's where the 4+ comes from.


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