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Daemon World List

 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:37 am 
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lord-bruno wrote:
I have lots of daemons from my LatD army and I was going to give this list a try, but the removal of Fearless from the daemons (just because) is a no go. Other Chaos lists have humongous numbers of fearless units and no issues (World Eaters, LatD REDUX, Death Guard...)


Daemons have no business having fearless: they suffer more from morale damage, not less.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:53 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
The greater daemons do but yeah, the rank and file ones all don't have fearless but do have expendable


True, but it's also meaningless in the normal lists, due to them dying as soon as the summoning formation breaks.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:01 pm 
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Drang wrote:
lord-bruno wrote:
I have lots of daemons from my LatD army and I was going to give this list a try, but the removal of Fearless from the daemons (just because) is a no go. Other Chaos lists have humongous numbers of fearless units and no issues (World Eaters, LatD REDUX, Death Guard...)


Daemons have no business having fearless: they suffer more from morale damage, not less.


So do you think than a Bloodletter shouldn't be more "Fearless" than say a Khorne Berserker?

Why a deamonic creature from another plane should suffer more from morale than a mere mortal?

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Because Daemons are creatures of pure emotion. When things go badly wrong for mortal troops, they get pinned down or rout. When things go badly wrong for Daemons they dematerialise back into the warp. Daemonic instability has been a feature of Warhammer since forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pm 
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My findings after playing with the list below (4 games, played versus sisters of battle, Biel Tal, Death Guard, astartes)

7 daemonettes + herald + 4 chariots (475) (3 soulgrinders and 6 daemons instead of chariots versus chariots versus Death guard)
8 horrors + herald (300)

1 Keeper of Secrets (175)
3 Lord of Change + Great abomination (600)

9 Fiends + 4 Seekers of Slaanesh (550)
9 Flamers + 1 Burning chariot of Tzeentch (275)

2x 6 Furies (2x150)
5 Spawns (250)

Warp rift (75)

The army already feels and plays in a relatively thematic way but it can be improved further as well as turned into a more balanced list. Also, this particular combination of factions (slaanesh + tzeentch) as well as defacto Tzeentch units themselves feel slightly due to their all around abilities.
Slaanesh on it's own would actually feel very weak as skimmers almost cannot be touched by them but effective tzeentch units cover that gap very nicely.

Since Khorne has basically all Cc units as well I presume it also needs to be combined with Tzeentch.

My findings by points:

Tzeentch
1.) Lords of change are way too strong, fast, versatile and durable at the same time for 200 pts.
As they are at the moment they are definitely worth 250 points per model. Keeper feels fine at 175 as he is too slow otherwise anyway.

2.) Flamers and horrors up by 5 points per unit. They are just too versitile and too strong as a unit by default.

Slaanesh:

1.) Furies have AA value and can fly, but cannot actually fight skimmers as they do not have a firefight value, which feels strange at best.
Add a Ff value of 6+ for the same reason as they have AA. AA range of 30cm feels very long. A small AA range reduction (5cm) could be in place to compensate the addition of a Ff value.
I believe Screamers need to be fixed in a similar fashion (unless of course there is a rule somewhere already covering this exception).

2.) Spawn of chaos extra D3 attacks is way too strong for it's points. D3 attacks in total is enough.

3.) Fiends cannot be beat if they get into Cc. Reduce the First strike to the extra attack only, add "mounted" and "walker".

Thematically speaking, the Daemonic assault rule is an increadibly strong setup rule that relies heavily on the start roll.
Tzeentch is the only faction which turns this on its head as it's lesser daemons are basically just a lot more versatile than both Khorne and Slaanesh and in general just the best all rounders while still having very decent saves.

Teleport in combination with their low initiative value felt quite "gamey" though.
I was always able to setup 3 good assaults (assaulting with slaanesh or undivided with tzeentch fire support) and it just feels to easy to do so.
In the last game I got the first turn and basically irradicated two large formations just because of it.

However, as the daemon player, I also always felt obliged to setup all 6 teleports in turn 2 as I had to set up as many threats as possible so that the opponent doesn't have an option to simply double away from them.
So all the games were quite one dimensional. Turn 1: Furies protect the Lords of change and Keeper of secrets from aircraft. Turn 2: Setup all teleports and hope to roll as few 1's as possible and get a lucky first turn.

My proposal would be that the daemon player can place the portal anywhere on the table each turn before teleports are set up.
Through this gate, any number of formations may move onto the table but all of them still have to roll for blast markers as if they teleported onto the table.
War engines and greater daemons can enter play this way as well and roll the number of dice equal to their starting DC for the number of blast markers they receive.

The necron rules for being removed from the table at the end of the turn when they broke would also fit them perfectly should provide an interesting challenge to the opponents as the daemon player has to consider that a broken formation cannot hold an objective
unless the warp gate is placed close enough to it next turn.

Daemons won all the games although some increadible rolls saved them versus Eldari and they got the crucial roll on who gets to go first versus the Death Guard.


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