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Proposed Cadia ver2.0

 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:06 am 
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If you roll ones for Deathstrike activations and then when you finally activate you also roll ones for to hits it doesn't really matter at this point. So Deathstrikes are kinda lost on me.
Recently I have been failing a lot of activations, one game I rolled 7 ones for activation in 1st turn and in the whole game it went to like 11. Even supreme commander didn't help.

Also you mentioned that Cadians have access to plenty of scouts but all I can think of are Karskins in Valkyries.

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:23 pm 
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McJakub wrote:
Also you mentioned that Cadians have access to plenty of scouts but all I can think of are Karskins in Valkyries.


I meant SL have good access to scouts, Cadians don’t. Valkaries have scout but Kasrkin don’t, then there’s the sniper upgrade with scout, and that’s it!


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:09 pm 
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RugII wrote:

Deathstrikes are another possible target for removal purely due to the fact they provide a function and reach it would be good for SL to have but not Cadians. I don’t like how Cadians can pull off exactly the same Vulture shield strip Deathstrike finish combo as SL.


One of my ideas for DS Launchers is an HE load. Like in the Titan list, each of the missiles is loaded with explosive ammo instead of TK (8 BP, one shot, indirect fire).

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Took the revised list for a run today. Tried a few different things in the build, while trying to keep closer to the reason I play them.
We got stuffed around by our regular club venue and had to relocate to a friendly gaming store. So was not conducive to a proper batrep.
I ended up with a poor match up - Gargants on a pretty open table. We called it a draw at the end of turn 3, but I think my opponent was being kind.

One thing that stood out: Rug, you mentioned that Cadians have access to heaps of MW. Am I blind? How does one reach this promised land?

For the record, my list:
Reg HQ in the bus with sabres and a psyker
Mech kasrkin in chimeras x2
Cadian inf co with whiteshields

3 Manticores (because I didn't have my griffons ready yet)
6 Hellhounds
Shadowsword
3 Hydras
8 teleport Kasrkin
6 Leman Russ

Thunderbolts

The shadowsword kept the great gargant occupied for two turns of shooting. I call that 200 points well spent. I can't see any similar threat in the list that's going to get that kind of attention for the points.
Really liked the whiteshield concept now. I took the inf co because guard builds are annoying and I had the points, but would 100% take them again. it's a chunky blob that took a lot of pounding to die.

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:15 pm 
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fruitbat wrote:
One thing that stood out: Rug, you mentioned that Cadians have access to heaps of MW. Am I blind? How does one reach this promised land?

I also forgot I to ask that, I really don't see that much MW at all

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Titan lists are tough to beat, especially if terrain is sparse, but they do tend to struggle getting anything better than a draw. Was it a fun game? Any comment from the other player on the list? I’m glad you liked the Whiteshields!

Cadian Macro:

The HQ Leviathan
Battle Psykers
The Ordinatus Cadia
The Marauder Collosus

More than SL but not loads. To be honest I was having a brain fart and getting mixed up between Stormswords and Stormblades. If Stormblades were an option there would be bountiful MW and Shadowswords could go. Choice of super heavy tank could be Stormsword or Stormblade, ie all changed!

How would people feel about the Shadowsword replaced by the Stormblade? And Manticores replaced by 6 Medusa? The later would mean there’s a 200pt suppression artillery battery (3 Basalisks or 6 Griffons), and a 250pt siege battery (3 Bombards or 6 Medusa).


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Shadowsword is a staple in any guard list so I wouldn't like to see it removed as it's a reliable 200 point activation and a TK. As for medusas, I personally don't see the appeal, they have too short range to really be an effective artillery and die to easily to be an effective combat unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:35 pm 
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No one's ever going to take the colossus over bringing more cap and the ordinatus is overpriced (or was)

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:20 pm 
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I had a big reply, but it was lost when the site dropped yesterday.

So, my opponent liked the whiteshield change. Probably best if you don't ask what he thought of the other changes.

I like the option of the stormblade. Should not have to sacrifice shadowsword for it though.


I got back on the Cadia bandwagon because I wanted to use my bus. I like the model, but not enough to play a deliberately crippled list to field it. SL have long been considered the sub-par guard option. I like that you're working to improve it (baneblade changes etc), but if it's the most appealing guard list, that just means the others have been deliberately downgraded. Makes little sense to me.

At this stage I think I can still build a fun and competitive Cadian list, just need to try a few iterations. I'd be concerned to see all of the 1.5x appeal lost in 2.x

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:20 am 
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I actually don't mind the idea of the medusa.. was thinking these with cut-down barrels:
https://www.onslaughtmini.com/terran-fe ... tanks.html

but, while I can see the speed of 20, I don't understand the 6+ armour... basilisks have 5+ and are essentially the same vehicle, aren't they?

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:10 am 
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McJakub wrote:
If you roll ones for Deathstrike activations and then when you finally activate you also roll ones for to hits it doesn't really matter at this point. So Deathstrikes are kinda lost on me.
Recently I have been failing a lot of activations, one game I rolled 7 ones for activation in 1st turn and in the whole game it went to like 11. Even supreme commander didn't help.

Also you mentioned that Cadians have access to plenty of scouts but all I can think of are Karskins in Valkyries.


I had this happen to me in a tournament where I fielded a sisters army.

I had 1 draw against a knights list, 3 tables where the lack of successful activation rolls really sent my army down hill, 1 minor defeat, but that was against an ork horde army, that rolled really well in engagements, and there were a lot of them.

I did not enjoy the wooden spoon award.

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:52 pm 
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fruitbat wrote:
I actually don't mind the idea of the medusa.. was thinking these with cut-down barrels:
https://www.onslaughtmini.com/terran-fe ... tanks.html

but, while I can see the speed of 20, I don't understand the 6+ armour... basilisks have 5+ and are essentially the same vehicle, aren't they?


Basilisk have 5+ because they represent the Fully enclosed Armageddon Pattern.

Medusas and other similar vehicles are 6+ because they are open topped.

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:43 pm 
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There can be enclosed medusas too tho

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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:47 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
No one's ever going to take the colossus over bringing more cap and the ordinatus is overpriced (or was)


The Ordinatus has had loads of changes in 2.0


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Cadia ver2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:57 am 
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McJakub wrote:
Shadowsword is a staple in any guard list so I wouldn't like to see it removed as it's a reliable 200 point activation and a TK.


This is exactly why it’d be good to have a Guard list without them in. Regardless of the army list, Shadowswords are a lynchpin unit which in many games do all the heavy lifting reducing Guard armies to basically being X Shadowswords with X “other activations”.

I’d be happy for there to be another reliable 200pt activation, just not the same one again.


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