Tactical Command
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Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=34285
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Author:  McJakub [ Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Aren't Stormtroopers a bit too expensive without valkyries? I mean they cost the same with an upgrade but considering Cadian Kasrkins have teleport and cost 200 maybe it would be more fair to just make them cost 200 or 225 and Valkyrie upgrade 150 or 125.

Author:  Deb [ Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Yeah, I have not adjusted their price from the old 3.0 version yet. I was trying to get the core and the deficiencies sorted out, while still trying to balance the list.

Avoiding the popcorn effect, testing to find the best deployment method to replace teleport, and then making sure the army had enough activations to live long enough or have large enough formations (with uprades) to survive to turn 5, and achieve some objective goals.

It all has been a series of testing, find the problems, redo list a little, retest, make some adjustments, get feedback, again test. See if the list can fare moderately against the hardest lists out there like Feral Orks, Ork Gargants, AMTL, Necrons, Some Tau, massive horde armies like Nids, Daemons (with teleport), and so many other hard to deal with lists. Or it can perform decently against most of the common lists out there some guard, vanilla marines, generic - Tau, Sisters, Knights, Skitarii, etc.

I will look at the cost for the Storm Troopers and see what can be done to make them more like the rest of the guard lists.

Other than that, how does the army list look now. I have included some artillery - mortar companies (limited selection), spotters (but to use them the rest of the formation has nothing to shoot at), Ground based AA - Sabres - 1 per core formartion allowed as an upgrade, but they slow the formation down, suffer from being classed as mounted, and still have a short range for the AA, and finally fixed up the mass teleport by replacing it with planetfall.

In addition this, it has been suggested that the I replace the Luna Class Cruiser, with some form of rear command bunker to be able to call in the pin point attack and have around of MW artillery drop in in a similar manner to what the Luna Cruiser does. I thought that this is just simantics, and the troops have to take the space ship or a way of organising a mass valkyrie troops grav chute drop in one way or another. It is like having a bomber formation carpet bombing the area you plan to drop the paratroopers into just before they actually drop, or try to drop on.

Other things I did to make the list more defined and streamlined are replace the scout role of the Hardened veterans, which were intermingled nto the drop companies into the grey Ghosts which are a dedicated garrison force, and function in a similar role to the SAS or the Marine Recon special forces. Except these troopers wear cameleon ghillie suits and are experts at ambush and tracking.

The hardened veterans I remade into the dedicated close combat troopers of the drop companies. This gives them a slight advantage in engagements - at a cost though, the same way Tyranid mixed formations can add specialist creatures to boost their hordes, or Ork Mobs can take extra Nobs to boost their CC outcomes.

The list still has weak armour throughout and more Light vehicles than armoured vehicles. Most of the weapons are short ranged (except vultures - but they cost a lot and use one shot missiles). Pretty much the list plans its drop, and softening up attacks. They place garrisons - which are limited, use some rear ground based follow up formations to grab or postion to grab objectives, and counter enemy manouvers.

Overall, I think the list is set out well. The points cost are what needs to be organised to balance it out and avoid popcorn armies lists, but still have enough formations to allow the list to survive (with their smaller formation sizes.

Author:  Deb [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=El ... V4.2.1.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=El ... 2.1_01.pdf

This is the drop box link for the list with the strom troopers price brought inline withthe rest of the imperial guard army lists.

Author:  McJakub [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Can't acces the files.

Author:  Deb [ Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

The system finally allowed me to upload the files. They are in the main section at the start of this topic.

I still can not work out how to link files with drop box. I upgraded from the basic package and the option for a link to oyur files from the 15 day trial period is no longer there.

Author:  McJakub [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

I still think that pricing on the units and upgrades is not fair.
Kasrkins in Valkyries in Cadian list cost only 50 points more compared to Eysian Drop Company. Not to mention that regular Drop Company is still more expensive that Cadian Kasrkins in v1.5 where they were 175 for 8 stands. Core options still feel overpriced and I belive upgrade costs should also be tweaked. Have you maybe considered adding 2 more stands and one more valkyrie to Drop Companies? They would cost a little more but with points drop per unit wouldn't let to be spammed as much. Not to mention that lack of any ranged firepower in Drop Companies is also really crippling. I would personally add Missile Launcher (45cm AP5+/AP6+) it would bring them more to be like other guards lists, also it's silly to drop without any dedicated AT weapons would you agree?

Author:  RugII [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

8 Kasrkin for 175 points was massively underpriced which is why they’re gone in the proposed v2.0

Author:  McJakub [ Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Core options are still overpriced when not taking Valkyrie upgrade, but that's what I am trying to say, you pay 200 points for 8 infantry units, the same as for Stormtroopers but 275 for for 8 infantry in valkyries (not to mention that Stormtroopers can get Valks for 75 points too and I am pretty sure they should cost more). Unless this is a consious choice to make people buy Valkyries for their troops I would tweak price of formation to Valkyrie upgrade.

Author:  Deb [ Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

If I drop the price of the core units, I will get a massive amount of complaints from those who want the list not become a popcorn list where I can have 16 or more formations on the table in a 3000 point army.

Combined with the ability to planetfall most of the army in one turn and overwhelm an enemy this will make it unpopular with many who want the list balanced.

I am trying to get the list so you can get the core formations for a slightly more expensive price (similar to many other lists out there), but the upgrades are a lot cheaper.

Those upgrades that might be a little contraversial like the spotter and the sabre are 25 points for 1, however things like 2 hardened veterans, or 2 fire support units are 25 points for the pair. 4 extra drop troops costing 75 points are there to boost the size of the formation, and are costed at under 20 points a unit, so in the end it allows the army to have larger formations and avoid too many formations flooding the table.

The army ends up having about 13 or 14 formations of between 10 and 15 units stong for the core formations and support formations with either 4/6/8(12) units each, and there are the allied/ space craft which have one or 2 units of aircraft.

I have trialed the list as it is and it seems I can drop in 2 separate group on the same turn as the space ship arrives, and threaten/take the BTS, and another objective. If I can also get between 3 and 4 other formations on the table as garrison and set up on the table in turn 1, then I can hold (hopefully) my own Blitz and another objective, and I still have the strom toopers to teleport in to deny or take an objective on turn 3 onwards. The aircraft also can provide CAP and remove broken enemy formations to reduce their activations, increase my kill points, and hold more objectives.

Too many formations and you run the risk of everyone hating to play your list, and it then being put up again for review and upgrade to 5.x. You want to avoid this, so I have made the list to be balanced, and promote larger core formations with cheaper upgrades, rather than uber cheap core formations and haing too many of them.

I hope this explains why I have set them as they are.

Author:  Deb [ Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

My own Elysian Drop Regiment is going to be about 10,000 points strong.

I will have 10 drop companies, of which 6 will be dedicated to engagements, the other 4 are for holding objectives and will have spotters, fire support units, and Sabres. The regimental command company will have have 11 drop troop units, the hardened Veterans, fire support units, sabre, Cyclops and the Spotter. There will also be 3 mortar companies each with a sabre, and fire support units.

The regiment will have 6 taurus squadrons - one transported by sky cranes, 11 entinel squadron, 2 transported by sky cranes - 1 scout sentinels, 3 support sentinels, 7 standard drop sentinels. 3 Vulture Squadrons, a Storm trooper Company, a Grey Ghosts Company. Allies will be 1 luna cruiser, 1 Line Breaker Squadron, 2 lightning squadrons, 2 Lightning Strike Squadrons, 2 Marauders, 2 Marauder Destroyers. That give me a total of 46 formatins for 10,000 points made up of 341 units. I might never get the entire project painted, however like my Necrons, and Vraksian Renegade armies, I will endeavour to get at least 70% of it completed before moving onto the next one.

Author:  Deb [ Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

The Current Elysian list is up for testing. If you have the ability to test the list during this damn lockdown pandemic period (since some places, countries, states have closed their doors to large crowds for tournaments, or even regular gaming weekends, then give it a try and please post some battle reports, and provide feedback. Once I have the rquired amount of battle reports form enough gaming clubs/ groups, then I can either update the list based on feedback, or put it forward for voting by the NetEA heads to become a legal list for touraments.

Author:  Deb [ Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Finally the restrictions have eased a little and we are having the Company of Dice for the first time in months tomorrow.

Well I will be hoping to play a 3000 point Elysian/Paramar drop list army for Epic Armageddon.

This will possibly be a test game for the ver 4.2 version of the Elysan drop list.

Author:  RugII [ Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

Looking forward to hearing about it!

Author:  Deb [ Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

I played a test game today. The map had a Church/Hospital complex in the top left corner. Below this was a large ruins Area with a gap before it reach to touch the edge of my side of the board. towards the middle on the enemy long edge was a large wooded area, below this was a mesa hill. On the enemy long edge right side was a large industrual admistratum complex, and then below that (but further to the left was a Planetary government defence fortress. To the right of this was a hill that ran up the right side short edge just past the half way line.

The map had enough large areas of defensive terrain, and line of sight blockers, as well as enough gaps so formations could shoot through to enemy, and artillery was not limited to Indirect for most of the game.

here is the link to the battle report

https://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd ... 84&t=34376

I think I fluked it. In a tournament I would have failed every second activation, wasted command re-rolls, and most of my formations would have failed to rally.

Author:  Deb [ Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

OMG for the first time in months, the Company of Dice will be be back at the Padstow RSL Club (Returned Soldiers League) But there will be rules such as spaced tables, 1.5m distance between each tble, etc. Even so, It means we will have a chance to play enough tables for 3 or even 4 tables of Epic Armageddon.

I know there are going to be a few armies to oppose my Elysians. Dan's Chaos Marines, Chris's Titans, or Black Templar Drop army, Possibly a Death Korp of Krieg list, maybe a Sian-Hann Eldar, hopefully an Ork army. I would like to see a Tau or Necron army however I do not know if any of the guys has either of those armies.

I will get one game in, hoping for 2 games. Wouldlike to face Dan's Chaos and Daemons, And either Chric's Black Templars, or a Guard army who would likely have enough formations, artillery and large formatons who could overwatch, and some hard to deal with assault troops like rough riders, Deathcorp of Kreig with their Gorgons, and some Marauder bombers. That would test this list immensely.

Either way, it will be more battle reports in the coming month.

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