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Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:59 pm 
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I don't think bunkers are thematic or appropriate in a drop troop list and would suggest dropping all such elements. If Steel Legion and other regular Guard lists don't have them there's no reason a drop troop list should have them and it's arguably even less appropriate for them to.

4 x individual Grey Ghost units sound abusive and annoying to opponents. No other list has such individual cheap activations and they seem problematic and too cheap for the activation advantage they provide.

If you want ground based AA wouldn't it be better to use tried and tested Hydra platforms or Heavy AA turret units from other lists rather than inventing a new AA platform in the Blitzen? Also AP6+AP5+/AA5+ is a typo.

Smoke launchers seem like an unnecessary and poor idea to invent a new special rule on such a weak pretext. If Sentinels are fragile, then tough - they're meant to be.

I'd suggest doing a lot of streamlining and simplifying, removing unnecessary extra units and rules and focussing on the core thematic stuff of the list which are drop troopers and their floating transports and gunships. I'll be collecting and mostly be running the Epic-UK Vannaheim Air Cavalry list but would potentially be up for playing a Net-EA list that was similar to this but included Elysian Drop Troop direct deployment and added the Taurus, Sky Talon and Cyclops. As is I'm not keen on the current list.


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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:34 am 
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See if you can get the Snipers In Ghilie suits. Something similar to Warlord Games Bolt Action Ghillie suit Snipers, but in 6mm.

https://store.warlordgames.com/products ... llie-suits

Remember these troopers are not dropped in, but are initially inserted by vtol (rapelling or stepping out of the Valkyrie) then it soars away leaving them to patol for up to a week before they get to their OP, or ambush site.

I have heard that people green stuff their minis to make these, but I could not spend the time as I now have a new job, and only have weekends off. And I am getting older - yes 53yo is not that old, but it and the cold Winter weather has sapped my desire to paint and model miniatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:43 am 
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I have worked out a nice 3000 point list for testing the Elysian Army.

3000 point test list for first trial of the army – when I can organise a game..
Core – 1500 pts
350 pts – Elysian Regimental Command Platoon with 3 Bunkers (8 units)
275 pts – Elysian Regimental Mortar Platoon with 3 Bunkers (8 units)
275 pts – Elysian Drop Company with Fire Support Platoon (10 units)
225 pts – Elysian Drop Company (8 units)
375 pts – Elysian Drop Company with Vendetta Transports (12 units) [BTS]
Support – 1050 pts
200 pts – Ghost Platoon (4 Grey Ghosts units)
150 pts – Elysian Regimental AA Platoon (3 units) with 3 Emplacements
225 pts – Elysian Sentinel Drop Squadron with Sky Talons (6 units)
150 pts – Elysian Sentinel Drop Squadron or 1 Taurus Squadron – if I can find them. (4 units)
175 pts – Elysian Rocket Sentinel Squadron (4 units)
A/C and Spaceships – 450 pts
150 pts – 1 Luna Class Cruiser (Spaceship) (1 unit)
150 pts – Lightning Strike Fighter Squadron (2 units)
150 pts – Lightning Strike Fighter Squadron (2 units)

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:11 am 
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I have updated the list to ver 4.1.1. I have added in the Elysian Drop Scout Sentinel Squadron that I had forgotten to include previously, and renamed a few units and formations so you know thye are Elysian drop type units.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:32 am 
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I’m in agreement with Glyn on the points he’s made, I’d be really interesting in hearing your thoughts on it.

Great looking force you’ve got!


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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:34 am 
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I could make the Grey Ghosts a formation that are not independent, but still have all their other rules. For 50 points a model - 4 for 200 points, or 6 for 300 points, which ever is easier to work with.

The AA could be a towed AA with something like a KettenKrad pulling them along. Perhaps something like the German WWII 20mm single barrel weapon. They could also be dropped in by a Valkyrie. Either that or allow 1 of the Taurus Venetors in a formation to get a 20mm AA gun mounted on it. Say a range 30cm AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ gun.

If you drop the bunkers from the list, then you will have to rely on the Line Breaker formation to hold the Bitz.

I would probably drop the Hardened Veterans as well, unless they have a special Role/Rule that benefits the formation. They seem like a unit you add to fill in 25 points to get to 3000 points. Yes they have scout infiltrate and sniper/sniper rifle, but that does not help the formation as much. when they are in an engagement. If they are kept, I would simplify them. Perhaps increase their CC by +1, replace the Sniper rifle with a Plasma gun, drop sniper and scout rules. These would be the veterans who rush forward with Infltrate and enter CC while the rest of the formation sits back a little to use their FF.

If I drop the smoke launchers from the sentinels then I might have to drop the cost of 4 sentinels to 100 points as they do not seem worth more than 25 points each. Predators are 50 points, Repressors are 25 points, and Penitent Engines which have a 4+ save and an invul save are 35 points each. So I can see the logic in dropping their points, or adding 2 sentinels, still for the same 150 points. The deathworld Catachans have them for that price, 6 for 150, while the cadian shock army has 6 sentinels for 125 points. Vraaksians have 4 for 100 points.

The Armageddon Steel Legion has them in a huge (unthematic for Elysians) squadron size of 10 for 200 points, so 20 points each. Tallarn has 8 Sentinels for 150, so 18.75 points each. Therefore I can not see why Elysians who rely on Sentinels more than any other list should have to pay 37.5 points a sentinel. It is illogical. Also They would have specialized sentinels for infantry support, ones for anti armour, and a generic one with say an autocannon or multi-laser.

Those would be the changes I would do.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:25 pm 
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After feedback from GlynG, about the bunkers and emplacements being unthematic, and my own belief that Elysian Sentinels are too expensive for what you get, I did a quick change-eroo with those changes, and updated the file.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:32 am 
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Hey Deb,

Looks great. I'm not sure i understand how the grey ghost work independently. If they count as 6 activation it would be a pain.

Also how does the cyclops AP4+/AT4+ work.

4 mortars in formation get 2x 1P each? so its 8bp? would be worth trying out but they may need to go up in points. 1 per army could be okay though.

Loving the list either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:02 am 
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I removed the "work independantlly" thing after GlynG made a comment that it would be too powerful, and so I removed that. They now work as one formation spread apart like scouts, but they are initially hard to detect when you amble into their ambush, so get the other rueles.

I changed the cylcop stats from what it was in the previous version ver3.x. I have not uploaded the changes yet, but it will come up in the next upload. Then again I am not sure if may had made an error with copy/paste. Either way it is all fixed now.

I changed Cyclops stats to:
LV 25cm save 6+ CC 3+ FF - Demo Charges One Shot Infiltrate, Drop Troops, If used in attack remove from play (no BM is added).

I also noticed I had not removed the smoke launchers from the unit stats for the Sentinels, but removed it from the army list rules. I re-did the unit stats to remove smoke launchers, and next upload will show this.

As to the mortars, I did not explain it well. I meant it to be 2 mortars per base at 1/2 a BP per mortar, making it 1 BP per unit. A total of 4 Bp per formation. I will have to fix that up with the next upload. Thanks for that - missed that.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:45 pm 
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probably could either use the automation or expendable special on the Cyclops. After all, no one cares they are getting their over-sized RC car shot up and they should take BM for losing one.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:58 am 
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I think Expendable would be the best, and you do not have to put that long winded explanation in the notes. Thanks Jimmyzimms. Good call I will change it for the next upload.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:08 am 
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I just want to guage whether people think keeping the valkyries, vendettas, vultures as a purely ground based AV skimmer, or whether to allow them to self-planet fall as well.

I am unsure how to go on this one. I can see the benefits in having your transports drop down siilar to Space Marine Storm Talons, Storm eagles etc, which have planet fall.

But I can see that Self-Planetfall might be a little to powerful even with something like an AV 5+ save, move 35cm transport, as you can drop a couple things down when ever and where ever, you think you might need them, and the enemy is not hit by just one landing group, but many which the enemy groung based AA can not hurt. Overwatch will still be a nightmare to deal with, especially when unloading, or engaging.

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:48 am 
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Don't go messing with established rules. Keep the same units the same across all lists. Accept the limits.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:10 am 
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No self planet fall or even planet fall. Its so frustrating even with the death watch when i tried to do it. Each Valkyrie has to scatter and can end up in stupid positions out of coherency.

Also the formations of drop troops would have to do the same. I would vote for the drop troops self planet falling like a drop pod so its a single scatter and all unload within 15cm of the point.

I vote expendable for the cyclops

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:54 am 
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Okay I have checked things out made the changes like expendable, made sure all the sentinels lost smoke launchers, removed the info on bunkers and entrenchments, removed the acts independantly thing from the grey ghosts.

I fixed the ground based AA. As recommended by moredakka, they are now 20mm towed guns that are pulled by Ketten-Krad type Half Tracks (similar to what the Deutch Fall Schirmjaeger used to have). They are fairly expensive for only 3 units, and they have the option for Valkyrie transports. Being a LV with a low save, a moderate ground move, low CC and FF, and only a 30cm range for their gun. AP5+/AT6+/AA6+, and they take 2 slots on a valkyrie.

They are more thematic, can be easily broken as there are only 3 units, They can be deployed via valkyrie, however it is an extra 75 points. Their range is not that great, but it does allow an option for ground based AA. Plus the WWII Germans and other airborne forces used a similar low quality AA type force (usually deployed via glider).

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