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Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:36 am 
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Imo increasing company size to 10 stands would solve a lot of issues. It's the same amount as Vanaheim air cav so it would be quite similar in strenght not taking into account valkyries. Maybe then self planetfall wouldn't hurt as much as well.
Also giving commanders missile launchers would help as they would have the ability to place BMs at longer ranges and since you have missile troops already in the list so it would make sense to have some sort of AT weapon integrated in the companies as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:59 am 
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I think I have clearly missed the aim of the this list, I always thought elysian where based on US aricav/Russian aircav? And if its not what is this list supposed to be?

continuing on, I simply wanted to point to the possibilities of what could be in the drop companies. As of right now I'm not confident in its ability to be the rock this list needs. On top of that I was thinking the vulture would fill a roll that the leman russ does in traditional imperial guard list, simply leaving it as upgrade, say 50 points and you can only purchase one per and upgrade slot.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:51 am 
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The list is based on the us airborne, or german wwII airborne paratroopers. They are the guard equivelant of the spacemarine drop pod troopers, however they use antigrav chutes to drop from hi altitude and open at low altitude. They use the valkyries to take them up to high altitude fo the drop.

Some of the Elysians are used in a follow up support role and become air cav specialists and drop in like the Voetname war air-cav forces., These troops are usually to reinforce an area where the initial drop has ben stalled or needs extra troops to push the enemy of the objective.

Mant people get the Elysians mixed up with the Vanenheim Air Cav list from the original UK lmperial guard lists. The Elysians were a forge world designed 40k imperial guard army and the minis came with anti-grav chute drop packs. They used the deep strike rule to deploy their forces. Vultures and valkyries were also allowed in the list.

The Vulture is not an upgrade in my list, but a dedicated support formation that is the mobile anti-tank fast skimming vehicle. I went with the best version of the vultures I could find and squadron of 4 of then with 2x AT2+ range 120cm is nothing to be sneezed at. I admit it is only a OS weapon system, but I had to use a current unit stats, and could not change them without a name change and a balancing of the units weapons for the price paid. I think however that 50 points each Vulture is a fair price, and might even reduce their cost down to 200 points for 4, or increase the formatin size to 6 for the current cost.

Giving commanders missile launchers, I am not sure. The original Forgeworld minis had Plasma cannons for the command sections. They had dedicated heavy support sections for the missile launchers, hence my option for 2 stands of Heavy support troops for 25 points armed with 2x missile launchers at range 45cm that provides both AP and AT. I also have a support squadron of 6 rocket sentinels Sentinels that each have a range 45cm, 1BP disrupt, Indirect rockt launcher for providing dropped in artillery (not MW though) which still has an indirect ability, and for only 150 points.

I had hoped the Rocket sentinels would provide some of the artillery lacking in the list, and tke some of the incoming fire off the standard troopers. You can get a decent sized drop company already by adding the +4 drop troops, +2 hardened veterans and +2 fire suport troopers - a total of 16 stands or 80 troopers in the company for 350 points.

Add in a spotter to that and they can get called in 3BP MW artillery out to an indirect range of 120cm.

I hope you can see the list does have some merits. Some of the dropped troop companies will be dedicated to hitting the enemy hard in engagements, some for running into cover near the objectives and calling in artillery and providing support fire for their fellow companies. They even have an integral short ranged AA unit to provide some form of AA denial, for broken formations. Remember, I am limited to what I can change, some units can not be changed. Remember the massive debate over the sabres being a towed light AA unit, and I was finally told to use the Sabre "as it currently stands". No changing it just because I said I could change the name.

I have really tried to improve this list and make it a well balanced and fair list and removed many of the disadvantages the army started with. Lack of ranged weapons (heavy support troopers), A disadvantge in CC engagements (hardened veterans), a lack of artillery and Macro weapons (spotters and rocket sentinels), lack of droppable ground based AA (sabres). I even looked at the various versions for the lightning and lightning strike fighter from the various Imperial Guard lists and chose the best of those that were not OP, or single role such as purely AT.

I have been listening to comments and feedback from both sides. I have tried to reach a middle ground, where the costs and the number of units in each formation is fair, and in the core formations can be inceased or upgrades added to make the formation larger deadlier, and more durable. I have heard from those saying the list is too popcorn, and tried to make ways to reduce this, by making it more enticing to add upgrades to increase the size of companies, to theme each one for a role. With all this in mind you can see I have done a damn good job of making the list a better one for the role it is supposed to fill.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:44 pm 
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Did in standard 40k Seel Legion have autocannons in HQ, or DKoK heavy stubbers, or Cadians? Afaik they didn't, they are there because it makes sense for commander to have something heavier dedicated to his company and does something very important gameplay wise that is the ability to place BMs far away.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:49 am 
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In terms of numbers, yes 8 is small for guard and hardly can be said to hit hard. Is it because of the air cav version? No reason they can’t be separate formations (allows you to put them as support too since the core is supposed to be drop companies). But this is only really an issue if access to too many cheap formations, because if the issue is they don’t hit hard enough then they can be upgraded with more units anyway.

The list does see a little bit popcorn to me but not horrific partly because the sentinels are more expensive and you’re forced to take a spaceship you don’t need. But you can’t really stop the army being popcorn by giving it cheap upgrades, as upgrades are a choice: if someone wants to make an army of drop companies, storm troopers [1], planes [2] and sentinels they can completely ignore all the upgrades.

[1] these being the same price seems an outlier by the way but I could be missing something.
[2] 6x AA 4+ on intercept for 150 points yes please, why would you ever take the other variant...

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:24 am 
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As to the AA, they are only 30cm range compard to a hydras 45cm. and only havea single AA5+ not AA4+. They are infantry so generally easier to hit. They have no armour save where Hydras have a 6+ save. They move 10cm slowing down the formaton they are with and are mounted so have to take terrain test as a light vehicle. Hydras move 30cm and have 2 shots for each vehicle, so 3 hydras for 150 points means you have a guaranteed 6 shots in a smaller area to deter enemy aircraft and protect your tanks and artillery and out to range 45cm, and hydras can be added to individual companies like tank and artillery, etc.

The dropped sabres are spread out over their erspective companies. I could just make them into a dedicated AA squadron of say 6 of them, and remove them from the companies. They are not what I wanted, but after the nightmare to just get even them into the list, I will settle for them over no ground based AA at all. I still wish I could have gotten the Kettenkrads and towed twin 20mm AA guns, but they are not what the deciding body wants. I have learnt to compromise to get some changes done, even if they only make the list a little better than what it was. Better that, than the deciding body telling me they have decided to not allow any changes other than the type of deployment method for the dropping troops.

I will also consider dropping the entire valkyrie upgrade for the drop trooper companies. This will mean yet another formation option added to the support forces. Specifically one designed as an air-cavalry platoon with 8 troopers, 4 valkyries and a vulture escort. But I want the current list tested first, and get feedback on it even before I consider making any more changes.

As to the heavier weapons on the Drop troopers commander and supreme commander units. I can not see them being made into a longer ranged heavy weapons team. Traditionally guard command squads have less heavy weapons than a standard section, and the heavy weapons are in the heavy support sections - hence the 25 points for 2 stands of heavy weapons units each with 2 range 45cm AP5+AT6+ missile launchers.

As to the squad sizes, paratrooper and other specialist elite companies normally have less troopers in them. Just look at the Storm Trooper company, should it be increased in size as well to say 10 or 12 unts? Plus I just copied and pasted the original drop trooper company from the Elysian ver 3 list and just changed the prices of the troopers, so you could get more upgrades for a reasonable price. Remember this list is still in the early trail stages. If you want to test the list and provide feedback, I might eventually increase their size to the commander and 11 troopers but iI will have to remove the upgrade option for adding extra basic drop troopers, and increase the base cost of the formation to match.

If I keep adding to the support forces, then I may have to allow 3 support formations for each drop company. I would probably merge the rocket sentinels and the drop sentinels into one heading where you can mix and match them as required. Most wise commanders will probably just have 2 rocket sentinel groups (support rockets) for each drop sentinel group (multi-meltas) rather than mix them any way. It would make choosing a target easier, and fix their role as support or assault.

At this stage I will keep it as it is, and await feedback from the test games.

Baby step people, that what they kept telling me at the start of this endeavour. So make a few changes, see if they work, get feedback and check results from the test games. from there get more feedback from the preferred changes and work out a suitabl compromise that will not make the list OP or unworkable. The start it all again until you find the list that will be offered as the final version of Elysians ver 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:49 pm 
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I will also consider dropping the entire Valkyrie upgrade for the drop trooper companies. This will mean yet another formation option added to the support forces. Specifically one designed as an air-cavalry platoon with 8 troopers, 4 Valkyries and a vulture escort. But I want the current list tested first, and get feedback on it even before I consider making any more changes.


I like this direction, especially for a paratrooper list. I have a recommendation that might solve some issues with adding extra formations. Keep in mind this is just theory, and I wanna test 4.2.1 fist before I even try this. But the idea is to move from 7 troopers and 1 commander to 12 troopers and 1 commander(much like regular imperial guard infy companies). As for the valk upgrades I'm a bit in flux about how to deal with that, I do believe it should be an upgrade choice for the droptroopers much like how regular guard have access to the chimera. Now the problem is if use the EA classic stat line for the valk we get something that would be super expensive due in part to its utility. My solution for this would be utilize the valks many underwing armaments', like fuel pods that allow the valk to conduct long range operations. if you haven't guessed already I'm saying replace the missile pods with fuel pods. I think the justification is there given how much the valks would be used if taken by the drop troops during deployment. On top of this the striped down valk, now armed with only two heavy bolters and a multilaser, is much more in line with other skimmer apc's. I just wanted to float the idea since its been rattling around my mind for a while now.


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Baby step people, that what they kept telling me at the start of this endeavour. So make a few changes, see if they work, get feedback and check results from the test games. from there get more feedback from the preferred changes and work out a suitabl compromise that will not make the list OP or unworkable. The start it all again until you find the list that will be offered as the final version of Elysians ver 4.


heavily agreed, I wanna see this list succeed. It has a lot to offer to the guards play style, and the many styles of play in NetEA as a whole!

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:51 am 
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kingzog wrote:
I like this direction, especially for a paratrooper list. I have a recommendation that might solve some issues with adding extra formations. Keep in mind this is just theory, and I wanna test 4.2.1 fist before I even try this. But the idea is to move from 7 troopers and 1 commander to 12 troopers and 1 commander(much like regular imperial guard infy companies). As for the valk upgrades I'm a bit in flux about how to deal with that, I do believe it should be an upgrade choice for the droptroopers much like how regular guard have access to the chimera. Now the problem is if use the EA classic stat line for the valk we get something that would be super expensive due in part to its utility. My solution for this would be utilize the valks many underwing armaments', like fuel pods that allow the valk to conduct long range operations. if you haven't guessed already I'm saying replace the missile pods with fuel pods. I think the justification is there given how much the valks would be used if taken by the drop troops during deployment. On top of this the striped down valk, now armed with only two heavy bolters and a multilaser, is much more in line with other skimmer apc's. I just wanted to float the idea since its been rattling around my mind for a while now.


That sounds interesting. It would also be a decent reason to drop the cost of the valkyries, as they loose the Rockets. The rockets are 1 shot anyway, so you get to shoot them once, and then you are left with the basic weapons. The Vulture would then be your 1 shot AT unit to escort them.

How to incorporate the fuel pods though.

I checked out the internet for the various Elysian command miniatures. None of them have an autocannon, lascannon, missile launcher, or heavy weapon. The only weapons they have are eother Melta guns or Plasma guns. It seems the Elysians command units and standard troopers were armed with specialist weapons only. The heavier weapons were in the Mortar squads (mortar company) and the heavy weapons teams Missile launchers. (support weapons squads) It seems the Elysians were lightly armed in a similar manner to most paratroopers with only specially dedicated squads having heavier weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:41 pm 
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from what I have seen the only heavy weapons they pack are the two deb listed, along with heavy bolters, mortars, and missile launchers. As for how to include fuel pods, I would just strip the rocket pods off of the valks and just leave them armed with the heavy bolters and the multilaser on the front, lastly you could call it the long range valk. From there you can have take the place of the current valk upgrade in the core, i would just list it as the same points as getting 7 chimeras for the infy company(150 points). I would suspect that upgrade value would need to change since the stripped down valk is still much better than the chimeras.

As much as I wanna go all in on this idea, I wanna get some more game sin of 4.2.1, on top of that I wanna see what other people think of the idea first.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:26 am 
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Not only that the Chimera is not a skimmer that can pop-up, and theyboth have a 5+ save. I am unsure but can a skimmer like a grav tank or a valkyrie ink? If they can, then they get that cover save as well.

I can see the Valkyrie mounted troopers being a ready reaction and response force, designed to move where they are needed. The Vultures are the tank killers, and the Air-Cav Platoons would be the annoying mosquitoes that keep the enemy busy and rush to deny objectives until the main force drops in, and then they fill the role of gap filler, and assault reinforcement.

I think basic options for them. Not heavy weapons or hardened veteran teams, no sabres, nothing. They are just as likely to ge themselves shot up and targeted before the main force arrives as chimera mounted iron fist platoons. Skimmers hate indirect artillery, especially MW artillery - I know this for a fact - Damn Orks blowing up my sisters army Inquisitorial Warband.

I think the Sentinels and Talos should probably still have the option for sky talons, but the advantage for them is so huge that the cost should be a bit daunting. Mind you 6 sky talons will cost a bit anyway. They would also be part of the formation once they had deployed the sentinels, so could lend their own weapons and numbers (for the break value) to the formation.

I will put all this in a special folder in the back of the planning area of my mind, and slot it in for later review and possible changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:23 am 
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Is there any possibility of this list being added to the approved lists on the main site any time soon?


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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:45 am 
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I am still developing this list. It might go through a couple more changes, and refinements. Even if this were the final version, the list has to go through a series of play testing and battle reports from a few different gaming groups world wide.

After the ruling council has decided to approve the list it is then added to the tournament lists. This might take up to 2 or more years sometimes. I have been asking people and thier gaming groups to send in battle reports with a summary of how they think the list performs at the end of it all. This helps me refine the list to balance it out, improve it and hopefully make it good enough, but not too good so it can eventually be approved.

In the end the ruling body has the deciding vote (NetEARC) , and they also make recommendations of what changes they think will be needed to let it be approved.

Please send in some battle reports.

Board index » Science Fiction Army Scale Wargames » Epic Armageddon » EA Battle Reports

The whole procedure is is discussed here.

Board index » NetEA Development » EpiComms NetEA Rules Amendments

There is even a downloadable PDF to read if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:02 pm 
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Sounds good, I have always had a soft spot for the elysians, but I am too new to really give any meaningful feedback. Still very much interested in seeing how this army list develops although I will probably hold off on buying an army for it quite yet :)


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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:32 am 
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I had a game today with the 4.2.1 ver list.

My opponent had who said he would make a battle report, had a Sian-Hann Eldar army which had a pair of Revenant titans, 3 Sword of Vaul with 2 firestorms each. Shining spears, 3 Wind rider clans, and Night spinners.

My list had 3 drop companies, one with extra troopers hardened vets, spotter and sabre, a regimental HQ with hardxened vets, spotter and a sabre, and a mortar company with a sabre and fire support troops. Vultures, Storm trooper company, lightning squadron, lightning strike squadron, luna class cruiser and an iron breaker platoon.

I won the game 4-0 with HTL, DTF, BTS and Blitz. Feedback from the game was as follows. The Spotter is useless. I did not realise when I added the character to the list that when the formation gets a blast marker, he is suppressed as he is the only one shooting, so can not fire. The mortar company is a bit too OP, in that it is BP 4 Disrupt indirect. That extra template makes a lot of difference. We discussed this and agreed that changing the mortar unit to 2x range 60cm AP4+/AT5+ Disrupt, Indirect (does not double range or have minimum range similar to Thudd guns). This would allow the mortars to drop in and find some cover or set up near their own blitz, and then act as a mid range area denial or pre-assault support formation.

The role of the Drop assault company was also discussed as was the size of the company. I again disscussed things like upgrades minimum formation sizes and deciided that if I dropped the spotter character, I would need to fill the roll of titan/ WE killer with another formation. My opponent thought that the size of my reinforced company was too large for some armies to break easily. It took a while and he still had not killed off the commander, 11 troopers, hardened vets and sabre of my BTS drop company.

We finally decided on the foillowing changes for a possible ver 4.3 Elysinan drop list. A standard Elysian drop assault company gets a commander, and 11 troopers, plasma guns every second infantry stand, and to help them hit hard in the initial assault they will get infiltrate. To help them deal with hard to kill WE, Terminators, Fealess Wraithguard/Wraithlords, and so on I proposed to add in as a second core formation. A special weapons Platoon.

This platoon replaces the Plasma guns with range 15cm melta guns (similar weapon rules as Sisters Dominions), and they only have a commander and 7 troopers. They still have infiltrate, however they are limited to 1 for every Drop Assault Company to stop them being over abused.

I also decided after discussion that too many BP template weapons would be a deadly and OP thing for this list. So the Rocket Sentinels who role is to provide some Disrupt weapons fire to place blast markers on enemy formations before a combined assault did not need to drop templates. Proposed change would be a range 45cm AP4+/AT5+ Indirect Disrupt weapon attack (does not double range).

I will drop the 25 point spotter upgrade. Since the Elysians rely on the initial hard hit, and then have to rush to cover, or be caught out in the open with no armour save, they will tend to die quickly, their rules will allow them to get in faster, and then be the glass brittle hammer they are supposed to be.

I will drop the option of Valkyries from all the core formations, and add in a support formation of Elysian Air-Cav Platoon who then get the Valkyries and become the quick reaction force. To make their cost more effective, the elysian variant of the Valkyrie will drop the one shot missiles. I am not sure whether to drop the Sky talons from the other support squadrons like the Sentinels and Taurus though.

The Grey Ghosts were discussed. My opponent understood their role as a garrison force - and forward scout group like SAS/ Recon Special forces, and so on. He suggested that the Grey Ghost were not a threat with just range 30cm AP5+ weapons and they were limited to just 1 formation per army allowed meant that if he could take my blitz and another objective, he denied me an objective point, and he gained 2 objectives. Thus could ignore them. He suggested that they be used to call in directed artillery fire rather than the spotters, and to overcome the problem of supression, that the whole formation be treated as having the spotter abiltiy. You would need to break the foirmation, instead of just supressing them - the formation as a whole will be able to call in one artilllery atack not each stand. I have yet to decide what to do for their range, however I do not want an OP formation that can reach out to the otherside of the table. I think maybe 45cm indirect 3BP, so you do not get the second template. MW or disrupt is the question.

I hope these ideas sound agreable, as, at the moment they are only recomendations, and I have not even put as they say pen to paper yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:22 am 
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I was Deb's opponent running Saim-Hann. I don't have time to do a full write-up, but here was the list I took:

Quote:
Saim-Hann Craftworld (Tournament Pack)
==================================================

REVENANT TITANS [650]
2 Revenant Titans

NIGHT SPINNER [175]
3 Night Spinners

SWORDS OF VAUL [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm

SWORDS OF VAUL [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm

SWORDS OF VAUL [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm

WILD RIDER CLAN (9) [350]
Wild Riders, 9 Saim-Hann Jetbikes, Farseer

WILD RIDER CLAN (9) [350]
Wild Riders, 9 Saim-Hann Jetbikes, Farseer

WILD RIDER CLAN (9) [400]
Wild Riders, 9 Saim-Hann Jetbikes, Wild Rider Chieftain

SHINING SPEARS [325]
8 Shining Spears, Exarch

This was my first game in ages and my first time taking Revenants out for a run. I made a few key mistakes in the game but didn't play that badly: some things worked, some things didn't from my end. Disclaimer: I haven't followed Deb's development of this list at all so it's entirely possible that everything I'm about to say has been said a million times before.

What I thought the list would do
Just from this list being a drop list, I basically expected three things:
  • Little on the board to start with other than aircraft and maybe light garrisons
  • A massive alpha strike on turn 2 or 3 as the units dropped in, where the drop Guard could mangle anything they dropped next to: lots of units with powerful short-range and FF attacks, but lacking the long-range support of more heavily equipped ground armies.
  • Less staying power after the drop, making it relatively easy to clean the Guard up if I could survive the drop in good shape.

What actually happened was a little different:
  • The Elysians did very little damage on the turn they dropped. A large combined assault of two bulked-out formations against my Revenants rolled far fewer dice than I expected and had almost no MW attacks: the Elysians won by sheer force of numbers, but took enough casualties in the process that it was easy to engage and destroy both formations in my next activation. Looking at the list, it seems that only one unit gets any sort of bonus in FF (the sentinels): this is completely at odds with what I expected from an elite drop army.
  • While the direct damage output from the infantry was negligible, BP support was terrifying. 4BP Disrupt from the mortars is huge, even though there was only a single formation - I'd be much happier with a 3BP unit (maybe at 1 per 1500 pts, rather than 1 per 3k?). But even worse were the spotters, which currently seem insanely good with their 60cm Ind 3BP MW called shot. Looking at the list they only cost 25 pts, which is ridiculous: adding a single one of these turns an infantry formation into a super-basilisk battery that gets cover saves. If I were optimising this list, I'd think about 3-6x 225 pt formations of Infantry Co + Spotter to start on the table deep in cover and just drop 3-6 BP3 MW templates per turn on enemies hiding behind buildings 100cm away. Madness (until they take a single BP, and can no longer do anything at all?).
  • After landing, the drop companies were more resilient than I expected. I could cause heavy casualties without too much difficulty, but the large numbers + improved regrouping close the enemy (I like this rule, but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for Elysians when Marines etc don't get it?) made it extremely hard to remove formations as a whole. Killing unarmoured infantry blobs is normally one of the things my Saim-Hann do best: here I was able to kill a tonne of units that got caught in the open, but not enough (and shifting the infantry in cover wasn't realistically on the table at any point).

All that said, I don't think the army is ridiculously OP (except for the MW BP spotters) although I'd want to play another game or two to have more of a feeling for the overall balance. Here are some suggestions that would bring the Elysians closer to what I picture as drop infantry:
  • Shrink the core drop formations to ~8-10 units and maybe ~12 units at a significantly higher cost. That's still plenty to hold ground if they get to cover, but more vulnerable if they don't.
  • Make the (smaller) drop formations more lethal. I'd start by thinking about giving the core units FF4+ due to plasma guns, and introducing a lot of melta guns into the list for short-range FF MW support.
  • Maybe let the Elysians prep targets for their drop assault by placing some BMs on the way in. I suggested giving them a free single shot at units within 15cm of the landing spot (identical to SM drop pods): fluff it as "the Elysians lay down supporting fire from above as they approach the ground under their grav chutes" or something.
  • Less long-range and powerful BP weaponry. I'd keep BP weaponry short-range and (largely) direct fire, by moving sentinel rocket barrages and spotter-directed fires in the direct fire 30-45 cm range band. You've got a unique ability to place those units right in the heart of the enemy: they should hurt anything they catch when they land, but if you misjudge the drop zones I think Elysians should suffer for it. Heavy indirect BP barrages (=4BP+) should be for SL and DKoK, not Elysians. I'd like for the only 'indirect' barrages to come from bombers, but I accept that Marauders are shit and have always been shit so that may not be a realistic option until/unless they become usable.
  • In return, more access to AP/AT weapons with 30-45cm range + Indirect Fire (to 60-90cm) and maybe Disrupt. Air-transportable light mortars shouldn't be blowing formations apart on their own, but I think the list could do with a little more ability to hunt broken or hiding enemy formations at medium range from the drop infantry.

One final point: there's probably too much variation within formations in this list. It's not a balance issue, but as an opponent it's kind of a annoying to have to deal with infantry formations containing Troopers, Hardened Veterans, a Commander, a Commissar, a Spotter, a Sabre... it's a bit of a mess, and I'd appreciate it if there was less variation within formations.


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