Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 175 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12  Next

Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.

 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9277
Location: Manalapan, FL
the first part: not so much as that's not actually true. The point about the hydras is a good one. I'd rather have the Praetors in the list and no hydra AA upgrades. Every list has to have a weakness....

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 26
Quote:
I thought the Kathargo 14th Armoured might be a good, unique name. It just lacks a little something.
The Cadians are Shock Troops.
The Armageddon-ians are Steel Legion.
The Kreig are Death Corps.
The Catachans are Jungle Fighters.
The Kathargo are ?


I just had a look on the Warhammer Wiki and it seems that the Kathargians were involved / helped to start the Badab War.

Before the war they made their wealth through trade and distribution throughout the sector, however when the Astral Claws declared independence and refused trade the Kathargians attempted to send armies against them which failed. After they bounced they requested help from other Astartes who then got the job done.

After the war the ruling Imperials of Kathargo where found to be arrogant and were 'removed' from power. The Whole Population of Sidon Ultra (14 Billion strong) were put into indentured servitude for 6 generations to pay for the mistakes and debts to the Imperial Tithe, which is still ongoing in the 'modern' 40k timeline.

so I guess they are / were rich and had to make their armies able to deal with Astartes on the ground hence the majority of super heavies. Their population is mostly in forced labor so the PDF has been drafted in off planet to police the population as much as protect them...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Hobart, Australia
junkstar wrote:
Matty_C wrote:
Good points Jimmy. I think I crunched some numbers earlier on and came up with the sky killer being similar in output to three hydras. At least it would deliver the same number of hits on average as three hydras. It's movement rate was slower, but it had a longer range to compensate. So I did put a fair bit of thought into the stats in the PDF. It's all coming back to me now. :D

Heavy Mechanised. What it says on the tin. ;)


Heavy Mech means bringing heavier deadlier units into the fight, not substituting 3dc hydra formation for a single equivalent vehicle with 2 DC, what would the point in having skyfire when 3 hydras do the job?

When I said heavy mech I was meaning for the army in general, not specifically the Praetor SK.

The Praetor S-K has better armour than the hydras which makes it harder to kill, but yes it is easier to suppress with only 2dc vs a squadron of 3 hydras. I think originally I had the Pilum warheads as 3x AA4+ which translates to 1.5 hits on average, vs 1.0 hit for the hydra formation. So that was the reason to take it. It killed more planes than 3 hydras. :D
The stats in the PDF are my second go at it, dishing out 0.66 hits at slightly longer range, plus adding the av attack. So apart from an extra 15cm of range not nearly as good as three hydras.

The Sky Killer is in among a sea of other 2DC super heavies (including the quite fast crassus), which may cause some target selection woes helping its survivability a little. Most armies don't have that many titan killer (Dx) weapons. I suspect it will still be targeted with prejudice by certain builds, like thunderhawk heavy lists and similar.
I think from a balance point of view I liked the first iteration better, but will add the av attack in there so it isn't just twiddling its thumbs once the enemy fliers are gone. Next time I try this list out I will use that and see how it goes.

Anyway, it really needs play testing. I've just moved (again) but am hoping that the new meta is flier heavy! :D
Nice find on the Kathargo there BigJulius666! I had no idea that was who they were. Seems fitting.

Also thanks everyone for the feedback! It is appreciated. :) if anyone tries this list out then let us know how it goes.

EDIT: just realised my maths above was wrong for the hydra formation. They cause 2 hits on average, not 1 (I stupidly forgot that the twin autocannons were 2x). So the SK does less hits than a hydra formation, with a longer range. Perhaps it might need a buff to 3x AA3+. That is the same damage output as a hydra formation, but with 15cm longer range. Easier to suppress, better armour, slower.
Thoughts?

_________________
.'.
http://ragged-they-kill.blogspot.com.au/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:42 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 6:55 pm
Posts: 801
Aa3 is too good. KISS is king. Why not 45cm, 2 shots aa4/at5 (thiese are rockets like the hunter, yes?) and formation of three. Basically upgunned and uparmoured hydra platoon. It will be expensive as hell though.

_________________
My blog - A man without a mountain of unpainted lead is no real man!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
Matty_C wrote:
junkstar wrote:
Matty_C wrote:
Good points Jimmy. I think I crunched some numbers earlier on and came up with the sky killer being similar in output to three hydras. At least it would deliver the same number of hits on average as three hydras. It's movement rate was slower, but it had a longer range to compensate. So I did put a fair bit of thought into the stats in the PDF. It's all coming back to me now. :D

Heavy Mechanised. What it says on the tin. ;)


Heavy Mech means bringing heavier deadlier units into the fight, not substituting 3dc hydra formation for a single equivalent vehicle with 2 DC, what would the point in having skyfire when 3 hydras do the job?

When I said heavy mech I was meaning for the army in general, not specifically the Praetor SK.

The Praetor S-K has better armour than the hydras which makes it harder to kill, but yes it is easier to suppress with only 2dc vs a squadron of 3 hydras. I think originally I had the Pilum warheads as 3x AA4+ which translates to 1.5 hits on average, vs 1.0 hit for the hydra formation. So that was the reason to take it. It killed more planes than 3 hydras. :D
The stats in the PDF are my second go at it, dishing out 0.66 hits at slightly longer range, plus adding the av attack. So apart from an extra 15cm of range not nearly as good as three hydras.

The Sky Killer is in among a sea of other 2DC super heavies (including the quite fast crassus), which may cause some target selection woes helping its survivability a little. Most armies don't have that many titan killer (Dx) weapons. I suspect it will still be targeted with prejudice by certain builds, like thunderhawk heavy lists and similar.
I think from a balance point of view I liked the first iteration better, but will add the av attack in there so it isn't just twiddling its thumbs once the enemy fliers are gone. Next time I try this list out I will use that and see how it goes.

Anyway, it really needs play testing. I've just moved (again) but am hoping that the new meta is flier heavy! :D
Nice find on the Kathargo there BigJulius666! I had no idea that was who they were. Seems fitting.

Also thanks everyone for the feedback! It is appreciated. :) if anyone tries this list out then let us know how it goes.

EDIT: just realised my maths above was wrong for the hydra formation. They cause 2 hits on average, not 1 (I stupidly forgot that the twin autocannons were 2x). So the SK does less hits than a hydra formation, with a longer range. Perhaps it might need a buff to 3x AA3+. That is the same damage output as a hydra formation, but with 15cm longer range. Easier to suppress, better armour, slower.
Thoughts?


Add a second vehicle to the Pl same stats but 6x AA4. AT5, AP2 range 60 cm


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 9:44 pm
Posts: 162
Largo_W wrote:
Aa3 is too good. KISS is king. Why not 45cm, 2 shots aa4/at5 (thiese are rockets like the hunter, yes?) and formation of three. Basically upgunned and uparmoured hydra platoon. It will be expensive as hell though.


Or make it a formation of 2? It will be slightly more survivable than a Hydra battery, without being a significant point sink.

_________________
http://wanderingmonsters.blogspot.com.au
'You should check this bloke's blog out, it's the bomb!' - HM Queen Elizabeth II (really)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
OK a few points after play testing 1 on 1

SL = Steel Legion HM = Heavy Mech

Mech Inf - same price yet SL has more DC overall and more shots from 7 Chimera including AT shots. (7 AT & 7 AP) Possibility to up the DC of Crassus to 3, that way in an engage they wont be outnumbered, in an engagement or firefight else it would make sense to deploy in SL formation. Also possibility to up x8 AP to 12 AP shots for HM? There is no capability for Crassus to fire AT.

x3 DC may seem a lot however if 1 Crassus receives a TK hit that unit gets 9 BM and is broken ( 1 coming under fire, 2 DC 6 stands) opposed to 1 chimera, 2 stands 4BM for SL. Failing that price reduction for Crassus from 75 - 50.

No Ogryn purchase available - imagine them in a Crassus or 2.

AntiAir - as stated previously up the vehicle size to minimum of 2 with DC 3 each or 3 vehicles DC 2 each, if going with a 2 or 3 vehicle formation then 60 cm is sufficient, else up the single vehicle to 3 DC 75 cm range.

Artillery - Dominus - 3x siege mortars per vehicle gives 18 BP per turn, not slow firing - excellent
- Praetor on a par with the Manticore except no Disrupt and not Slow Firing - excellent

Tanks - Macharius formations are great however; tank squadron for x3 Russ' is 150 points, yet a squadron of x6 - 400 points - should it be 300 with +25 for for Vanquisher?

Scouts - HM only gets Salamanders and Stormtroopers (Stormtroopers lose Garrison if they get a Crassus but retain scout) due to the formations slow movement perhaps Vultures can be added to Stormtrooper Platoons?
SL gets stormtroopers, Sentinals, Salamanders, Vultures and they are fast moving compared to HM

Titans - no scope to purchase a single warhound


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:52 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
Had an idea for a special rule that would fit the Heavy Mechanised aspect, something along the lines of:

If Chimera, Hydra, Griffon, Hellhound models are fielded with Applique Armour/Additional armour then their movement is reduced by 5cm, however they now count as being re-inforced. If a Russ is deployed with additional armour its Armour save becomes 3+ Re-inforced, movement 15

Addidional armour would be a free upgrade

Thoughts?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 9:44 pm
Posts: 162
Is it really appropriate to have foot-slogging Infantry Companies available as core? This list is intended to represent a Heavy Mechanised Regiment, an organisation that historically would abandon anything not able to keep up with the armour. As it stands it's possible to only take foot-slogging infantry companies as core, which I feel undermines the intent of the list.

I'd like to see this list able to represent heavy armoured forces as well as heavy mechanised. I feel this would be a simple change to the list, enable variety in unit choices, and enable the list to be distinct from other lists such as Steel Legion & DKoK.

Core
Remove Infantry Company
Remove Regimental HQ
Add Heavy Tank Platoon

Company Upgrades
Add supreme commander (option for both Heavy Tank Plt, & Heavy Mechanised Coy. 1 per army only )

Support
Add Mechanized Platoon (As Minervan - 10 infantry, 5 Chimera)
Remove Heavy Tank Platoon

The only thing that strikes me as odd about these changes is that this means a core formation will only be DC6, but then the formation will have access to additional Macharius through the company upgrades.

Thoughts?

_________________
http://wanderingmonsters.blogspot.com.au
'You should check this bloke's blog out, it's the bomb!' - HM Queen Elizabeth II (really)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
Short Bearded One wrote:
Is it really appropriate to have foot-slogging Infantry Companies available as core? This list is intended to represent a Heavy Mechanised Regiment, an organisation that historically would abandon anything not able to keep up with the armour. As it stands it's possible to only take foot-slogging infantry companies as core, which I feel undermines the intent of the list.

I'd like to see this list able to represent heavy armoured forces as well as heavy mechanised. I feel this would be a simple change to the list, enable variety in unit choices, and enable the list to be distinct from other lists such as Steel Legion & DKoK.

Core
Remove Infantry Company
Remove Regimental HQ
Add Heavy Tank Platoon

Company Upgrades
Add supreme commander (option for both Heavy Tank Plt, & Heavy Mechanised Coy. 1 per army only )

Support
Add Mechanized Platoon (As Minervan - 10 infantry, 5 Chimera)
Remove Heavy Tank Platoon

The only thing that strikes me as odd about these changes is that this means a core formation will only be DC6, but then the formation will have access to additional Macharius through the company upgrades.

Thoughts?


Its Heavy Mechanised opposed to Armoured formations, although I do like it, however I am assuming tanks are for support to this list not as the fist making it an Armoured spearhead with Inf support.

I would prefer to see the removal of foot slogging formations with either free Chimeras or a purchase upgrade of Crassus. Lets face it unless you March in turn one it wont be until turn 3 until formations reach objectives. Looking at the list only Salamanders could possibly reach the blitz (especially if playing corners)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:50 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
Played 2 games using the list vs Orks (3000 points) I had

Regt HQ plus Hydra
Heavy Mech Infantry Coy, Hydra and Hellhound
Heavy Artillery Coy - Praetor
Heavy Bombard Battery
Tank Platoon + Hydra
Sky Killer
4 Thunderbolts

8 Activations vs 13 Ork Activations

The army is very slow moving, and expensive. En Blitz's would be hard to take with that list, unless marching in turn 3 to it, but that leaves them open to counter attacks, as was eventually out activated.

A single Sky Killer was quite ineffective, in game 2 we upped the Sky killers to 3 - which made them more efficient, but not too powerful with range kept at 65 cm, AA3 - same price.

The Dominus Bombards we used as x3 Siege Mortar per vehicle, giving 18 BP per turn, needless to say these were a prime target for the Orks who used a Lander and ground assault to destroy them. They work very well as 6BP each however, I would suggest slow firing for them.

The HQ and Inf Coy suffered by not having the capability of the Crassus' firing AT, as a result the Orks remained for most of the game in their BattleWagons, only drawing close to engage. Again having less DC than say 7 Chimeras they faired well with their 4 up reinforced. Perhaps change two heavy bolters for autocanons to get an AT hit for Crassus?

Praetor Launchers faired very well and for the entire game held the blitz and had a pop at anything that moved. Using Sustained Fire per turn made them work.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 9277
Location: Manalapan, FL
The triple dominus bombard in this list is a single weapon, not x3 regular bombards. If you're experimentally trying it as 3, slow-fire should mos def be returned. I'd be happy to see an alternate direct fire option for the praetor with AT, similar to the basilisk.

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
jimmyzimms wrote:
The triple dominus bombard in this list is a single weapon, not x3 regular bombards. If you're experimentally trying it as 3, slow-fire should mos def be returned. I'd be happy to see an alternate direct fire option for the praetor with AT, similar to the basilisk.


Agreed, or purchase it as a single vehicle with x3 Siege Mortars slow firing and up sky killer platoon to 3 vehicles


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:43 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Germany/UK
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dominus

Maybe there should be a special rule for Dominus that on a roll of 1 the missile deviates 2xD6 with scatter dice?

The Dominus' primary weapon is a powerful and somewhat unpredictable triple-barrelled Bombard Cannon that fires in an automated sequence and pushes the durability of the Crassus' armoured hull to its very limits. The Dominus, much like the ancient Minotaur heavy mobile artillery piece, is not used for slow and grinding bombardments of fixed fortifications but for direct fire support during armoured assaults.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fan-List. Heavy Mechanised IG.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 487
Location: Hobart, Australia
Lots of feedback and suggestions here which is great! I had a draft reply prepared earlier but didn't quite get it finished before real life tore me away for a while.

I'm happy to remove the foot slogging infantry if people want me to. It was one of those formations that I wasn't sure of, but included initially, mainly to help port armies over that are based on other lists.

I'd suggest trying the Dominus at 3BP each without slow firing. That feels about right to me.

I'll get back with more in a week or so, and hopefully an update to the PDF. So thanks for all the feedback and discussion so far! :)

_________________
.'.
http://ragged-they-kill.blogspot.com.au/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 175 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net