ortron wrote:
Cool list Matty,
We were chatting about something similar last year but never got around to it. Have you considered making it a "Cadian 6th Armoured Regt" list out of IA11?
Unfortunately I haven't got IA11. I've got IA1 2nd edition, so based the new unit stats from that. If you could pm me a pdf, some photos of the pages or a summary of the list I'd be more than happy to have a look at it.
ortron wrote:
I like the Praetor and Dominus and they look ok at first glance, definitely see the bombard cannon working better on a 4+RA 2DC platform than it does on the current bombard. I would consider both moving at 20cm though as there isn't fluff that I can see making them slower than leman russes etc. True they don't have the "overdrive" of the Crassus but they still share a faster than normal SHT chassis.
I've based their speed on the Macharius tanks in the Krieg list(which I cloned into this list). They have the same chassis and in the absence of special rules (like the crassus gets) the 15cm speed seemed reasonable. IA1-2nd edition doesn't have published top speeds for these units unfortunately.
ortron wrote:
For the praetor AA variant, might i recommend a single 60 or even 75cm AA3+ shot? (essentially a giant hunter) Whilst it can put out a bunch of missiles, lets just say they all have be locked onto one AC each time it fires, so its likely to hit a single target well, if its multiple AC you want to defend against then you'll need hydra to sweep the skies. Alternatively, since it is a WE, consider a fire arc on it so if you don't position it well its arc will only protect part of the battlefield.
The single shot would actually be worse than the options discussed above (0.67 hits vs. 1.5 or whatever it was). The best way to make it giant killer would be to make it a tk AA (!), but I just went with multiple dice to achieve a similar same result. I just math'd out a combo that was similar to the hydra, but a little different. Since it's epic and not 40k I figured that multiple shots wasn't too unreasonable in the interest of game and list balance and not inventing game breaking TKAA. I think it would be too underwhelming with a single shot, and I don't really have a feel for how game breaking it would be to give it a 75cm range, but gut feel says "be wary". But I'm happy to try that out some time to see how it rolls if the 1.5 hit option seems too overpowered.
ortron wrote:
I think you could allow single SHTs as a support formation, they're pretty common across the IG/AM but clearly don't have to be a core choice in all armies.
One of the ways that I have tried to balance this list is to remove the options of single SHT's, and make activation count fairly challenging to manage. I figured that there had to be a down side for(potentially) taking so many super-heavies in one army. I might have gone too far, but will have a play with it as is and see how it feels. What you propose here is possibly one of the first things I would try. After all it is theoretically possible to take an entire steel legion army composed of nothing but 3dc SHT's, and it's not like that gets run too much.
ortron wrote:
Finally I would recommend allowing chimera as a transport option or replacing the infantry company without transport for an option of one in chimeras, because that will still focus the list down the mech inf side of things with a focus on Praetor, Dominus, Macharius support. I'd suggest you don't limit other transport options too severely because remember not everyone will be able to access/convert models required for this list, so too restrictive core choices will limit playtesters.
Yep, fair point. If I replace the unit rather than have chimeras as an upgrade then the only potential garrisons are the salamanders and the transport-less stormtroopers, which I think is fine. It might be worth keeping the hydra rather than having the sky-killer for the same reason.
ortron wrote:
Overall thanks for your efforts so far. I will hopefully be able to offer some test data on this in the new year.
Cheers mate. Sounds good.
lord-bruno wrote:
Matty_C wrote:
What he said. Special rules to make it fast for a super heavy. Costed appropriately.
Ehm, no. Gorgons are much better (walker instead of 25cm speed seems fair, but the massive boost of DC3) for the same price.
To be hones I think this is an issue with the gorgon rather than the crassus. Matt-Shadowlord is doing some good work with the Krieg list and the gorgons at the moment. I think he has them at 100 points each with the changes he is working on now, with the mortars no longer being a free upgrade, and limited to two per formation.
The crassus feels about right to me at the moment, based on a steel legion comparison.
75 points = three chimeras.
It takes 4.5 AT hits to kill them, vs 8 for the crassus thanks to its better armour. The crassus is 5cm slower, but doesn't slow the formation until it's lost 2dc, but doesn't have the (admittedly poor) AT attacks the chimeras have. In a firefight they both cause 1 hit, but the crassus is more resilient. I don't really see a need to reduce it's points based on that, but I will play test and reserve the right to change my mind at a moment's notice.
I have a game with this list against fattdex's iron hands tonight, so I'll report back here what my thoughts are after that. Plus he knows his way around the list building process so might be able to point out some other things I might have missed.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
