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| First Baran list - advice please guys! http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=20797 |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Sun May 29, 2011 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Heya guys, I am thinking of collecting Baran seigemasters for my next epic army (I currently have Eldar and Black Legion) and have written up a prelim list, just to see how much it will cost etc. Please have a look and tell me what you think: 3000pts REGIMENTAL HQ [500] Supreme Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), Griffon Battery (3 Griffons), Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers) INFANTRY COMPANY [475] Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), Griffon Battery (3 Griffons), Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers) INFANTRY COMPANY [475] Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), Griffon Battery (3 Griffons), Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers) ARTILLERY COMPANY [450] 9 Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements ROUGH RIDER PLATOON [150] 6 Rough Riders ROUGH RIDER PLATOON [150] 6 Rough Riders DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200] 2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers ARTILLERY BATTERY [150] 3 Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements ARTILLERY BATTERY [150] 3 Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts |
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| Author: | Apocolocyntosis [ Sun May 29, 2011 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Having three BTS formations might be a bad idea. |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Sun May 29, 2011 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
I was under the impression that the Regimental HQ was always the BTS in the list... Edited anyways. Just re-read the swordwind box and I was wrong. The reg HQ + any other most expensive formations count as BTS...  Fiddled a bit with the list. Thanks for pointing that out Apoc. |
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| Author: | Signal [ Sun May 29, 2011 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Just on a quick look, you might be better off dropping some of your Infantry Co upgrades, in order to get some more Infantry Companies  Especially the Griffons stand out to me as something which might be better off elsewhere.
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| Author: | lord-bruno [ Sun May 29, 2011 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
I would drop the griffons and add a Ragnarok platoon (or even some light tanks). Great models and one of the few tanks that can actually advance through difficult terrain + big gun + thick armour. |
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| Author: | Signal [ Sun May 29, 2011 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Ragnarok's can also garrison I believe, as they are speed 15. |
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| Author: | Matt-Shadowlord [ Mon May 30, 2011 5:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
A single Fortified Position is usually enough. Having built and painted some enthusiastically I have now decided they are over rated, but at least Baran's come with razorwire which is great. The artillery company is a real terminator/thunderhawk magnet. The other main problem is a lack of anti air. Yes, you have thunderbolts, but since Baran almost always go second the opponent will have a free reign until you get to go on CAP - and you're first two activations are likely to be artillery rather than thunderbolts which makes the problem worse. Adding some siegfried tanks would give you some more versatility. |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Mon May 30, 2011 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Hmmm... this is going to be more difficult than i thought  Lots of questions ahead!The griffons were only really there because I was planning to use the FW Medusas as them, so can easily be dropped. I do like the amount of firepower one of the infantry coys would throw out tho! I do not particularly like the GW siege models, not even the Ragnaroks so I would have to find an alternative! They seem pretty lacklustre on paper to me, but I am probably wrong. Also light tanks or Rough Riders? Both seem fragile but useful for objective grabbing. On the fortified positions, is 1 really enough? It seems rather skimpy for a siege force, do you not want just about all of you infantry in trenches or am I missing something? I had gone with three to give me a solid front line, with another set as a second line around the screened with RRider artillery etc... I agree that the razorwire seems great, almost better than the trenches!  Would you suggest Tbolts AND AA guns? Or just AA guns? They seem quite delicate, but have good range. I am looking to get a list pretty much pinned down before I start buying stuff, so anything and everything can change! Thanks guys |
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| Author: | Carrington [ Mon May 30, 2011 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
novemberrain wrote: On the fortified positions, is 1 really enough? It seems rather skimpy for a siege force, do you not want just about all of you infantry in trenches or am I missing something? I had gone with three to give me a solid front line, with another set as a second line around the screened with RRider artillery etc... I agree that the razorwire seems great, almost better than the trenches! There's a fair amount of discussion about the "solid front line" in another thread on fortifications. The bottom line on this -- you're much better off thinking about 'hedgehogs' rather than lines in order to avoid clipping. The big question on the forts, i think, is whether you have enough to protect infantry castled around your artillery. |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Mon May 30, 2011 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
I saw that thread and I was thinking using three something like this: --------- / _____ \ / [AAA] \ Sorry for the dodgy diagram, but I think it makes sense. Have a central hedgehog around the artillery, then the other two forming a semi circle further out. I cannot see how not having an (almost) continuous line of trenches / fortifications would be playing to their strengths. |
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| Author: | Icapica [ Tue May 31, 2011 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Very nice that someone made a thread like this since I'm building my first Epic army at the moment and it will be Baran Siegemasters. So far I have: 1 Regimental HQ 4 Infantry companies 15 Rapiers 1 Bombard battery (I like the old miniatures so I wanted them) 1 Siegfried platoon 2 Snipers 2 Rough Rider platoons 15 Götterdämmerung Howitzers 2 Baneblades 5 * 10cm of trenches (bunkers, gun emplacements and razor wires aren't finished yet) I'm getting Thudd Guns hopefully pretty soon and I'm also planning to get Ragnarok heavy tanks and Blitzen AA guns. I think I'll also need some Bruennhilde transporters. I've seen people say that Baneblades aren't good. Why is this? They seem fine to me. Also, should I get some Deathstrikes or Shadowswords? I'm not planning to get any air units yet as I'm a total noob and I'd prefer to first learn how to use the "normal" units properly. Edit - Fixed some minor mistakes. |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Tue May 31, 2011 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
Are you buying the original miniatures Icapica? Is it not bankrupting you?! Baneblades just never seem to be that impressive to me, I think they are just a little bit lacking given how much short range firepower IG can throw out - I see them much much less than shadowswords! ---------------------- I have fiddled with my list a little and am fairly happy with it now. It is not the strongest list I think I could make but it seems to cover alot of the areas. It is also made with buying costs in mind! ...click to edit name..., 3000 POINTS Baran Siege Masters (EA Swordwind) ================================================== REGIMENTAL HQ [450] Supreme Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), 2 Snipers, Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers) INFANTRY COMPANY [425] Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers), Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), 2 Snipers INFANTRY COMPANY [425] Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Fortified Position (Trenches, Razor Wire, Bunkers), Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), 2 Snipers INFANTRY COMPANY [325] Commander, 9 Siege Infantry, Thudd Gun Platoon (3 Guns), Rapier Platoon (3 Rapiers), 2 Snipers REGIMENT AA BATTERY [125] 3 Blitzen AA Guns, Gun Emplacements DEATHSTRIKE MISSILE BATTERY [200] 2 Deathstrike Missile Launchers ROUGH RIDER PLATOON [150] 6 Rough Riders ROUGH RIDER PLATOON [150] 6 Rough Riders ARTILLERY BATTERY [150] 3 Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements ARTILLERY BATTERY [150] Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements ARTILLERY BATTERY [150] 3 Gotterdammerung Howitzers, Gun Emplacements THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts |
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Tue May 31, 2011 6:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
If I was playing against that list I'd work on wiping out those Rough Riders and keeping you penned into your half of the table. If I was canny about objective placement and put my Take and Hold objectives far away from your fortress on the 1/2 way line, I could conceivably get Defend the Flag, They Shall Not Pass and Take and Hold. Even the artillery batteries/ AA sitting on the Blitz could be attacked by a deep strike and they'd fold easily (though your infantry co.s would probably come back and wipe them out!). You have an awful lot of activations that can't move or move very slowly - these won't be able to capture objectives. The 2 formations that can sally out and grab objectives are relatively small and fragile. The rest (Infantry Co.s) are slow and relatively unwieldy. I'm not particularly familiar with the Baran list, but think about ways you can hold the line (Infantry Co.s in fortifications) yet counter attack quickly and grab objectives - the Ragnaroks were one suggestion on how to do that. |
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| Author: | novemberrain [ Tue May 31, 2011 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
You see part of the reason I do not like the Ragnaroks is because they are effectively the same speed as the Inf coys (10 cm vs. 15cm?) and are not very impressive on the attack. If someone can point out their amazing feature then please do! The only 'fast' formations are the rough riders, or the seigfried tanks, both small and fairly fragile. I went for the RRiders, but there is not a great deal between them. I had figured on having one of the Inf coys work to protect the Art. park, but it is true that alot of the guns are pretty vulnerable - the thing is I cannot really see a way around this... |
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Tue May 31, 2011 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Baran list - advice please guys! |
ah, now when I said I didn't know the list very well, I didn't realise how true that was! well, one option would be to have a couple of firebases somewhere forward with the infantry co.s, one at the back with some artillery, AA and a cheap infantry co., plus some cheaper activations to run around and get shot at (RR, Siegfrieds). I wouldn't bother with so many artillery fms though, a couple is enough - after a certain point (BM fms, breaking fms contesting objectives) they don't add anything more to the overall strategy. I'd drop some more of the upgrades too - perhaps keep the Rapiers for some AT, but the Thudd Guns seem a bit redundant with all that artillery and AP. Snipers, I dunno, probably useful for using up 25pts, but if you're getting 2 I'd rather have 6 siege infantry for 25pts more (more shots, more bodies for assault resolution). Dropping some of the upgrades might let you get another more mobile fm or perhaps some sappers or Ragnaroks (those on OW in a firebase up front would be awesome). |
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