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For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x

 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 8:32 pm 
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You will be able to get Valkyries from GW soon enough.

My airborne range will include troopers, specialists, demolition drone, and landing figures as well as the current ground crews, pilots and drop strider walkers. New buggies are already mastered and will go for production moulding very soon now.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Sounds good !

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:30 am 
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Yaay.

Only a few more armies to complete, very slowly. Elysians, Tau, Iron Warriros, Imperial Fist Fortificatoin list are all just started, but none are near a 1000 point force yet. I need to flesh out my Red Corsairs and Skitarii to complete the main formations (mainly transports). I need a few more things for the White Scars/Raven Guard (subfound ng chapter) - more Bikers, Storm Ravens, Storm Eagles and Storm alons. For the Squats I need 2 more Goliath Mega Cannon, 2 more Leviathan, some more warriors, atleast 10 Rhinos, another land train, and then I can move onto starting or developing my BFG fleets.

I suppose I could always start a Custodes army as well.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:04 pm 
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Let's get back to actually discussing the list, not collections ;)
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Deb, you seem to have lots of energy on Epic right now...Maybe you're interested in chatting with Rug about taking this one up and pushing it forward?

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:15 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Had a game with captPiett and this list last Friday. Between Mosc and some games against Matt the Muppet over VASSAL a few years back this makes at least six.

My impression back then and this past Friday is pretty much "how is this even fun to play"?

The biggest issue is using teleport to represent the drop. Teleporting 8+ units in with no save and a 15cm shot is useless. You have to put them close to the enemy to be of any use, and between the blast markers they get from teleport and their average SR it's going to lead to a broken army. CP teleported in three formations turn 2, and all three were broken after my third activation. Give them self planetfall, a heavy bolter, a missile launcher, something. It's just ugly otherwise.


Just would like to remind all interested about Dave's post at the top of last page.
Nothing I've seen has contradicted this yet. The teleport mechanic is both crippling and "unrealistic" (by reasonable-man theory, because this is sci-fi - but really when did a parachute drop happen that wasn't meticulously planned in advance?).
Perhaps storm troopers could have teleport as an elite QRF, but some type of planetfall would be more appropriate and more playable. The list needs to be re-worked, IMO. I say that as a big fan of Elysians.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 6:12 pm 
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I’d be happy for someone to take the baton on this list, it’s a tricky one! Open to PMs!

Totally agree with you CaptPiett. The bulk of the list should have some variation of the orbital drop mechanic with maybe a few small formations with the teleport ability.


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:05 pm 
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I'd probably go with self planetfall as they're literally stepping out of valks and that albatross support craft thingy in the fluff, not dropping from orbit. Obviously if you have formations with integrated transportation they're not dropping from high up and skimming onto the field like a traditional unit would when roping in from a helicopter IRL. Both probably have utility in the list conceptually at least

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 4:26 am 
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I would be happy to take the batton fo the Elysian list.

After reading a40K novel a while back about a mixed force of Elysian style drop troops, Mechanicus and space marines. They tried to take out a Chaos army that had cultists, and warmachines. Chaos were trying to build a demon summoning tower. The Elysians pre-planned a drop from high altitude (demons were already coming out of the tower) and harpies intercepted a lot of the marauder bombers, the valkyries drop transports, but not enough. Elysian troopers dropped in their thousands, on about 3 preset positions, each in support of the now advancing mechanicum army. Marines then dropped on the tower and succeeded in destroying it.

Regardless, the drop was pre-planned. and via halo drop. Obviously some Elysians drifted off their target a little. I agree in the suggestion that the Elysians need to Planetfall. I do not think it needs a spaceship however. I do think they should have self-planetfall, and that they must still have to plan their drop before turn 1 starts. The storm troopers can have teleport due to their elite status, and risk a blast marker or 2 to indicate a misdrop. Being a regimental sized force, they could organise to drop on 2 or more objectives, however that might weaken each force taking the risk to cover more objectives, but with less troops on each. You need to be specific which formations go with each drop group and on which turn they arrive. This still gives them a small advantage but also you have to plan well.

The army gets little in the way of heavy support elements. and you will still have Elysian targets to wipe out from your long ranged artillery, or heavy armour in your force, as they will not all likely be dropping. You need some of your own objectives held.

I would severly liimit their garrisons. As Elysians would only use scout sentinels (4 sentinels), and special scout troopers limited to 6 squads of infantry on foot.

The list would have the regimental command platoon, Elysian drop platoons, and drop sentinels as the core of the force. If you wanted to have the formation on the table before hand, perhaps as a command and control base element for the drop assaults, then they would get bunkers which could only be set up with the formation in your 15cm deployment zone. I would make the infantry formatons only 8 strong including the lieutenant or Colonel/Major. (this would make it perfect for the Vanguard Novan drop forces that will probably be sold as a 40 pack). Valkyries would be an upgrade for the drop Platoons instead of grav shutes, but at a cost and they also lose the self planetfall.

Those sentinels which are transported by Sky talons will look have the normal weapons Lascannon, Autocannon and Missile Launcher and an armoured cockpit. The drop sentinels without sky talons (upgrade) have have thrusters on their side to help them in the drop and get self planetfall and have the same weapons options. In support roles are Scout Sentinels would be lightly armes with heavy bolters or Flamers, and open topped. The other support Sentinels are rocket sentinels and provide a short ranged limited artillery. I would use those that are currently in the Harkoni list. They would have 4 to 6 Rocket Sentinels that are 1 BP range 45cm with indirect (but you do not have the double range or minimum range for indirect). Limit 1 per 1000 points.

Another support formation is the Storm Troopers, keeping it as they are now. Then have Vendetta gunships including Punnishers as they are now, and the other support formatons look good. For a ground based AA I would have a support formation of 4 fixed (0 move) Blitzen weapon platforms with Emplacements which must be set up in your deployment zone (copied from the Mirali list). No artillery except for the rocket sentinels, and no death strikes shown in another list as that would make them way to powerful. You can use the spaceship for taking out or weakening Titans, etc.

As to the 1/3rd portion. Marauder bombers (destroyers, and notmal), Fighters - Lightnings and Thunderbolts, a Luna class Spaceship.

You want the army to be a strike army, that needs another army force to come in a later turn and slowly reinforce the Elysians. You could have a 1/3 allocation formation similar to the Harkoni Warhawks Line Breaker relief column, but they have to come in from the edge of the table on turn one. I would use 6 to 9 Leman Russ tanks that can be conquerors or normal russes (cost more).

In essence the army drops in pre-planned drops. You have to be specific about which formations are dropped as part of which group and where and on which turn they arrive. Those not dropped by self planetfall will have to transported at lower altitudes via valkyrie weathering enemy fire, but geting the extra bonus of a larger formation and more fire power. The support reserves from another regiment slowly move up to hold objectives as the entire army will eventually move up and fall into the area the Elysians have just taken. There will be no supporting artillery companies, just the small support rocket sentinel platoons, that advance or are moved forward via sky talon, and the aircraft/bombers.

I can see the army being a low to mid level army for tournaments depending upon the opponents army. It has a good amount of mobility, but formations are rather small, unless transported by valkyries, in which case they are expensive. Support formations are smaller still unless you add to them, making them more expensive. If you work things out well, you can get a lot of very small cheaper formations, but they break easily, and you will need to rely on the core formations, and aircraft to help you. Your forces are further weakened by low armour saves, a plethora of LV and infantry meaning the enemy can tear your forces apart easier. This list might perform really badly against an AMTL list, but they mightjust outnumber them enough and deny or take enough objectives. I doubt they will get BTS, or DTF, or even HTL, but they might get Blitz, or T&H.

You have no war engines, and very little ability to take out war engines, except to surround them in formations which FF them after the rocket sentinels remove their shields, and add blast marker to them. It will be a harder army to use, and you have to rely on the self planetfall drops ad the mobile forces to hold deny objectives, and hope you have enough forces left unbroken or destroyed to attempt a win or a tie.

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Last edited by Deb on Sun May 31, 2020 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 4:23 pm 
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Some good points … 8)

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 4:35 am 
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You should definitely have a crack at taking on the AC position for the list Deb. You could apply for the Eldar AC job too. Its been open for some time now and I'm sure you would be interested in the pushing the Dark Eldar development list forward.

There's actually a few lists around you could apply for. Thousand sons? World eaters?

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:39 am 
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Maybe one at a time Norto. I will try and crack the Elysians, and then have a go at the Dark Eldar as they need a very small amount of tweeking to get them right (not much).

Thousand Sons seems a hard list to get right. I think it will need a lot of cultists and some human psyker chorums to support the thousand sons main force. Mind you Thousand sons has always been an army that relys on their invul saves, and their high AP weaponry, so maybe the custodes new rule Flashbane (-1 to enemy's armour save) might work there. I would give them rotary autocannons range 30cm, and they need some form of daemonic war engines to help them as well. There are a few to choose from. Then Vehicles and Daemon to support them. I could also have their Primarch as an option for armies of 4000 points of more. I might even give their vehicles an invul save, as they do not seem to have too much in the way of lof long range except for Titan support.

I do not know if I want to do World Eaters. They are really just an assault army. An Assault army on Steroids. You would have berserk cultist, Beserk Terminators and Chaos Marine berserkers rushing forward to cutting up both the enemy and allies alike if the enemy are not in sight. They need reliable assault transports, drop pods, thunderhawk, as well as Stormbirds, and lots of daemon engines, Daemons, Dreadnoughts, and Khornate Spacemarines to some degree. There would be no artillery tanks, no Librarians, Just Captains, Daemon Princes and a warlord for characters/ leaders, but I would have to have some form of inspiring character as well. Named characters might be included for friendly games or games over 4000 points say Kharn, Angron, but that might be a little OP.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 6:37 am 
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How does one appy for an AC position?

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Yes that is why we'd kept our games at Bn or Bn TF level. That was one of my many big criticisms of SM2/TL. And did not play it for a number of reasons, etc. They loaded the table with many until with no saves. The board looked more like the era of Napoleon, ACW, fantasy, etc. With modern elements like tanks, SPFA, etc., etc. It took longer to put the models on the board then to game/play with them. As Turn 1 progressed many were removed. It took longer to put the models on the board then to remove them ! :gah

It has always been my belief that with SM2/TL they wanted to sell massive amounts of minis to use in a game which was more a game than a "wargame". They started to paint everything in bright shiny circus colors even more so. To attract the "kids".

They'd release box sets with 3-4 different armies, instead of one army per box. So you were forced to buy things you didn't want or need. >:(

Again I get it … they are in the business to make a profit. But as they have said a number of times. They are a model company first and game company second. And with SM2/TL being their most successful/profitable version of Epic. They cornered the market on with that niche … At least for a few years … :gah

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:08 am 
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Well from what I hear, they are now selling in their 40K games (now that Epic provedun successful for them, and the new Titanicus and Aeronauticamight end up the same), so you have to buy their new shiny over priced and over sized kits. The stats on them make you need more of that type of mini, or a lot of minis that have massed fired power.

From what I hear about 9th edition, they are going to be spamming Mortal wounds. Characrers, or special armies like Harlequins, or special units with in armies will be able to deal out the equivelant of "D" weapon wounds to others from either ranged guns or their close combat nightmare weapons.

So you see GW have not Improved, they are only getting worse. I know someone who will not be playing 9th edition - me. So much for a balanced game.

But that did not answer the queston I asked about the AC position. I read the pdf on army champions, and contacted RugII myself. Although he has not replied.

I will work up a revised version of the Elysian army list and see if RugII likes it.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:32 pm 
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I know I'm not buying any new AT or AI and no Epic if they redo it for the 5th time ! ;D

And I agree GW is getting worse not better … 8)

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