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Vultures
1) No change 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
2) Range reduction (90 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 23%  23%  [ 12 ]
3) Range reduction (60 cms) 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
4) Range reduction (60 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 17%  17%  [ 9 ]
5) Range reduction (45 cms) 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
6) Range reduction (45 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 52

Vultures
Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:22 pm 
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Vultures, see last thread for why this poll is here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....74;st=0

2 is what the French have been using.
3 or 5 have also been proposed recently.
4 and 6 for completeness.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:31 am 
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Well, this looks inconclusive. :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:35 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 01 2007,08:31)
QUOTE
Well, this looks inconclusive. :)

Well actually I think it provides a pretty good indication of the general level of power people think they should be at, which is less than now, but not too much less. That's pretty important I think.

In fact we appear to be getting a nice looking normal curve as might be expected...  :D

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Soren
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:41 am 
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AT 3+ is MUCH less than now for a one shot weapon

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:14 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 01 2007,09:11)
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From my game on weekend,

A game - where's the report?  :;):

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Ginger
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:28 am 
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I would agree with Markonz here, that this is starting to look very usefull (and thanks for adding the "extreme" options).

It is also interesting to note the way views have changed as the suggested changes were refined (even though this is also partly due to group dynamics).
  • In the first poll in June (of 34) most (21) wanted no change while 10 were in favour of changing the range in some unspecified way.

  • More recently, in Sept (of 37 votes), nearly two thirds (27) were in fovour of change with just under half (15) looking for both a specified range and power reduction.

  • Here, of 16 votes to date, over 80% (13) are in favour of change, with over half (9) looking for a reduction to 60cm range (as presented in many of the comments in the earlier threads) and of those, nearly half (4)suggesting that the power reduction should be considered as well.

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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:40 am 
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I would go for range reduction. AT reduction would be harsh for 1 shot weapon. But riculous that Vulture outranges LR and rivals Shadowsword for long range hitting power.

Without range reduction the Vulture can sit on baseline on sustained fire and hit almost anything on battlefield with 2+ even against units in cover. With range reduction Vulture would at least have to move forward to fire. Yes it will still have devsatting first strike capability but would then be much closer to enemy and thus vulnerable to counter fire.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:09 pm 
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I have found that the revised skimmer rules have cut back on the efficiency of vultures. Where previously they could take down enemy artillery without a second thought, suddenly they can't see them.

Plus they are an expensive one shot weapon, which can be targeted and neutrilized very quickly.

One of my games yesterday had my vultures getting all their shots off on an advance only for me to roll 4 1's, but that's just the luck of the dice.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:30 pm 
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I didn't include anything on this in the review docs because it seems like there is no consensus other than something should probably change.

At the moment, I'm inclined to keep changes minimal.  It seems that the primary complaint is deployment-zone-to-deployment-zone fire.  90cm prevents that.

Would there be howls of protest if we simply dropped the range to 90cm and waited to see how it shakes out?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:44 pm 
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None - especially since everyone will scream at you if they don't like it. :)

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:56 pm 
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I'm not sure why people worry about the deployment zone to deployment zone firing anyway as you can always garrison them and that will put them closer to the deployment zone anyway.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:57 pm 
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I don't think think Vultures can be garrisoned - they are too speedy.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:59 pm 
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There scouts so you could even garrison them on overwatch with the experimental rules.
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