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Armoured Regiment 1.4

 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:03 pm 
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Just to get back to the Stormtroopers / Vultures thing for a moment.

I can understand the whole combined arms thing, but given they aren't part of an Armoured Regiment it seems wrong to me to put them in the main list. So how about making them a choice from the 1/3rd points Support stuff, like Navy and Titan legions?
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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:47 pm 
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That's an interesting thought Reaver, and I'll probably put that in.

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:59 pm 
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I agree Reaver's idea sounds good- can still field them but not at expense of tanks!!

I dislike the idea of letting all LR variants have sponsons- that would make the list too unwieldly unless you culled the number of variants. Perhaps include this as an option in an appendix section so not usabke in tournaments but can use rules for adding sponson in friendly games if you have gone to the trouble of converting your FW tanks.

I definitely think this list should keep in all LR variants, SHT's and aircraft. If this list does n't include all LR variants then which list will?

Likewise I think this list should retain the SHT's and aircraft- if there were more official IG lists to come out then having separate SHT's avaialble for certain lists e.g. Stormblade for Cadian, Stormhammer for Kroeg, Stormsword for Mordian would help differentiate each IG list. However I can't see another official SG Epic book and I would be surprised if there were that many semi-official SG pdf lists.

After the Tallarn list what other IG list will be playtested enough to be released as PDF? Krieg? Cadian? Maybe Elysian Drop Troops?

So may view is this is the tank list- it should have as many tank choices as possible. So maximum numbers of LR variants & SHT's with limited amounts of mounted infantry & SP artillery in support.

I would not like to see further complexity added to this list (e.g. sponsons), But I also think it is not in need of any simplification in terms of reduced tank choices.

Cheers

James

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:07 pm 
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And on the issue of titans I think it is a good idea having as options the titan packs produced by FW. FW is the only way we will new Epic stuff released in new future. So think it is good that new lists will fetaure FW packs.

Pesonally I would prefer to see Warhounds with Inferno Cannon + Vulcan Mega Bolter or Turbo Laser + Plasma Blastgun. Because they are loadouts I would pick if going for completely free choice of weapons in AMTL list.

But at least if include titan waepon loadouts that FW currently produce, new players will be able to purchase from FW titans that they can use in this list without conversion. And it slowly expands the number of different titan loadouts that are semi-official and reasonably balanced. Which gives us more choice & variety, which keeps the game interesting.

I like this list and can see myself using it once I have based and varnished my tallarn tanks.

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:09 pm 
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(Reaver @ Jun. 15 2007,16:03)
QUOTE
Just to get back to the Stormtroopers / Vultures thing for a moment.

I can understand the whole combined arms thing, but given they aren't part of an Armoured Regiment it seems wrong to me to put them in the main list. So how about making them a choice from the 1/3rd points Support stuff, like Navy and Titan legions?
Regards,
Reaver

Not sure about that- storm troopers are always attached to forces, never part of them. Even so the steel legion list has them as support formations. Once again I seem to be fighting against change :p  but as before I think that the rulebook should set precedents for future developments.

I don't have any real problem with this idea- it just seems a bit weird.


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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:55 pm 
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And on the issue of titans I think it is a good idea having as options the titan packs produced by FW. FW is the only way we will new Epic stuff released in new future. So think it is good that new lists will fetaure FW packs.


Perhaps I should peel off the variant Titans into a third list... 'Titans for use with Imperial Armies'...

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:15 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 19 2007,13:55)
QUOTE
And on the issue of titans I think it is a good idea having as options the titan packs produced by FW. FW is the only way we will new Epic stuff released in new future. So think it is good that new lists will fetaure FW packs.


Perhaps I should peel off the variant Titans into a third list... 'Titans for use with Imperial Armies'...

I'd be very much in favour of doing that.

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Re the sponsons...
At teh risk of repeating myself we didn't find anything broken about the sponson/+5cm swap. Tis quite easy to write as well - you don't need to do three datafax for without/heavy bolter/heavy flamer. What you can't incorporate easily (you can do it but its a bit complex) is plasma cannons, as found on the demolisher hull. Though we did have half tested ideas about demolishers with lesser/no sponsons and 'ryza pattern' battle cannon Russ for a skitari list that got a few games in before testing ground down AMTL wise.

Essentailly you write up each varient sans sponson, but with a note preceding the 'Russ section about the possible upgrades. Hell you can write the hulls as
main weapon
Lascannon
OR Heavy bolter
For those of us who has had there lascannons break off the forgeworld models and found heavy bolters are easier to build back on!

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:44 pm 
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I don?t know if this was already stated here, but why are 6 (+1) Salamander Scout 400 when I can get 3 of them for 100. Even if they are a company, for only 100 more I get a SHT-company.

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:22 pm 
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(Soren @ Jun. 19 2007,19:44)
QUOTE
I don?t know if this was already stated here, but why are 6 (+1) Salamander Scout 400 when I can get 3 of them for 100. Even if they are a company, for only 100 more I get a SHT-company.

It's a mistake. :)

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:45 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 19 2007,23:22)
QUOTE

(Soren @ Jun. 19 2007,19:44)
QUOTE
I don?t know if this was already stated here, but why are 6 (+1) Salamander Scout 400 when I can get 3 of them for 100. Even if they are a company, for only 100 more I get a SHT-company.

It's a mistake. :)

so waht are the thoughts on pricing them? 300 seems to little and since they are primarily scouts I'm ok with them being cheaper in smaller formations.

Maybe 350?


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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:33 am 
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350 for 7 vehicles with Armor 6+ and nearly no durability?

250 at most. Else I would take 2 time 3 of them as suppport and take the upgrade for the command vehicle for the same price. In general bigger units are cheaper, not more expensive.

Think about it, you get 5 Speeders for 200, also scouts an MW with a far better save. So I would like to hear a justification for making them more expensive than speeders.





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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Anything new on this front? Whats about the Recon Company? E&C your point value suggestion?

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 Post subject: Armoured Regiment 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:46 am 
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Note I am still keen on no sponsons +5cm. Even if you don?t include the mechanism that design philosophy can be built in. So following on from my last lot of comments?.


Medusa ? so what are you doing with this creature? And is it an assault gun or an artillery piece?


Salamander Command ? having found my old playtest stuff from the old forum I must say I preferred what was in use then
Speed 35cm, Save 6+, CC6+, FF5+
Heavy Flamer, 15cm, AP4+, Ignore Cover AND Small Arms, Ignore Cover
Heavy Bolter, 30cm, AP5+
Notes: Leader, Transport (one human infantry unit)

Why? It occurred to use back then the tank wasn?t itself a commander etc, rather it have the comms gear and the like. A command squad could use it, but if not it could still be a C&C vehicle for an arty company etc etc. No Scout isn?t a problem, after all it shouldn?t be running away from its unit of non-scouts and if it joins a scout unit it just has to stick close to one.


Commissars ? different and simpler way of writing it. One per 500 points, and include one in the SC formation (as odds on it will be taken), you can lose text from the special rule then.


Conqueror ? after reading its blurb about the cannon being better for firing on move etc should its FF not be 4+?


Executioner - ? Two things, one Slow Fire weapons are fiddly, two how does it work with Small Arms? Can I fire it every turn as a small arm or what?
I would suggest something like
Speed 25cm, Save 4+, CC6+, FF5+
Plasma Destroyer, 60cm, MW4+
Lascannon, 45cm, AT5+
Reinforced Armour


Tank Destroyer ? on reflection I would leave it out of the list. Been reading about them lately, only the Yanks stuck them in armour formations and only then late war. They were used by mechanised, combined and dedicated formations, especially if on the defensive. If you are determined to have them in then really they should lose the fixed forward, its to fiddly, really shouldn?t be there at non WE unit level in Epic. Would also consider upping speed to 25cm for shoot and scoot style ops.


Thunderer ? Fiddly. Fixed forward? Why, really shouldn?t be there at non WE unit level in Epic. I would up the speed to 25cm. In fact as an infantry assault gun I would take it out entirely.


Shadowsword ? is the FF deliberately raised?


Stormsword ? MW, Ignore cover is a no brainer abomination. Really can you be convinced to go for Ignore Cover, Disrupt instead? Rather than kill allt he marines you will instead be bowling them over like ninepins.

Stormhammer ? I?m still with my version
Stormhammer Super Heavy Assault Tank
Numerous different Stormhammer SHT?s exist, fighting all over the galaxy. Indeed it is rare for any two to be exactly the same as the Stormhammer is a conversion to battered and destroyed Imperial SHT?s to swiftly return them to battle. Damaged guns are replaced with worn out artillery barrels - weapons whose shells have started falling short or that can no longer be counted to accurately engage distant targets. These heavy guns find new life providing infantry close support in environments such as cities that conventional armour finds costly to penetrate.
A classic example is the attack on the capitol city of Mendeleev, a world that had taken the decision to break from the Imperium in M38.173. For over two hundred years deprivations from Eldar pirates and a rash of similar independently minded systems delayed any Imperial response. When it came it was spearheaded by a Forgeworld fresh regiment of Baneblades and Shadowswords. Crushing all resistance these tanks moved to enact the pre-invasion threat of decimation if surrender was not immediate, something the ruling elite did not entertain due to purges of nearby systems following their own capitulation. Defences were concentrated in the seat of planetary power with the intent on deadlocking the invading Imperials long enough for Eldar mercenaries to arrive. Initial attacks were disastrous with a dozen SHT?s lost to carefully positioned guns and traps. Supporting infantry were overwhelmed by pre-sighted heavy weaponry. Salvaged SHT?s were repaired and fitted with captured artillery pieces and numerous close in defensive weapons. Firing at point blank the powerful shells demolished position after position.

Type: - War Engine
Save:- 4+
Move:- 15cm
CC:- 5+
FF:- 4+
Weapon:- 2x Twin Linked Cannon
Range:- 30cm
Firepower:- AT2+/AP2+
Notes:- Ignore Cover, Disrupt
AND small arms, ignore cover
Weapon:- 4x Heavy Bolters (I imagine they are twin heavy stubbers)
Range:- 30cm
Firepower:- AP5+
Weapon:- Point Defences
Small Arms, ignore cover, +2FF attacks
(Bolters, stubbers, flamers etc)
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Walker, Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Stormhammer?s considerable magazine explodes. It is destroyed, and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 6.
note, walker is to represent the additional tracks often fitted in the underside of the hull, taken for chimera or leman russ vehicles. Left to run freely they may be connected to the main drive shaft when operating in urban environments giving improved traction (copied from a WWI idea).

Idea is to compare it to a baneblade - so the two main weapons and secondary weapons need something of a boost to compare to that tanks armament, hence the extra assault punch, 2 1/2 hits per tank compared to the baneblades 1 1/2, with the addition of thick rear armour and walker to allow it to operate that close in, or in confused urban fighting. Was originally FF3+, so a total of 3 1/3 hits but it seemed to be doing a bit to well, so got knocked down a bit.

Though really why is it in the list?

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