Death Korps of Kreig |
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Warmaster Nice
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig  Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:14 pm |
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:50 pm |
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-No plasma weapons - Krieg was ravaged by centuries of nuclear war so advanced weapons like plasma weaponry was abandoned in favour of simpler and easier to produce stuff. This is reflected in the orgaization and combat doctrines of the army today even though they would have gained access to such weaponry later on.
Like I mentioned, I've already turned up examples of Krieg units using Executioner Plasma Russes... they have a pronounced high-tech / low-tech dichotomy.
-I'd make the bulk of the artilery static as well. Say compaies of Siegemaster artillery and FW weapon platforms but only allow self propeled artillery (Basilisks, Medusas, Bombards etc.) as upgrades in batteries. The reasoning would be he same as earlier as a tracked chasis is much more difficult to mass produce than just a gun on a platofrm.
I've completely removed the longer ranged mobile artillery from my test list. The only self propelled gun is the Medusa, which has an extraordinarily limited range (15cm).
The Gun Platforms I've put down as support formations.
-Definitely have some kind of Super Gun like the railway canon or the Karl or Leopold mega guns from WW2. I've been tinkering with a design based on two Bombards ad a buch of other bitz but it hasn't ben finished yet. Perhaps an Ordinatus Krieg? Basically it would be comparable to the orbital attacks other lists have available. A super heavy barrage but slow fireing so it wouldn't be available more than once or twice during your avarage game.
This is a nice idea... I've just been puzzling over how you'd represent the railway tracks.... otherwise it'd either have to be tracked (An ordinatus) or immobile.
-Perhaps limit turetted Leman Russ tanks + variants? In WW2 German tank production began to favour turretless designs todards the end of the war as these designs were much quicker to manufacture.
The Krieg regiments definitely have access to advanced technology... that to me means that they get the full selection of Leman Russ tanks.
-Aircraft should be kept to a minimum -if allowed at all!
I've removed Valkyries from the list, but the other aircraft seem to fit with the Krieg's dichotomy of capability IMHO (Masses of terrible infantry supported by very advanced strongpoints in the line / list).
The Airship support sounds really cool as well!
It's an interesting one... what would it be, the overlord airship with a new alliegance? It might fit nicely with the Krieg's 'slow but powerful' style.
-Stormtroopers are more or less the same as the Sappers from the Baran list IMO so I'd just copy that directly.
Although the Baran's Heavy Flamer is worth nicking, I'm not sure the Krieg's Grenediers deserve MeltaBombs as standard. (Though I have no fluff to base this on other than what I've seen of ForgeWorld's StormTroopers so far).
-Introducing te Trojan sounds great but isn't it more or less the same as a Bruenhilde in terms of gameplay function?
Yes it's a faster, purpose-built Bruenhilde, not a stopgap measure like with the low-tech'd Barrans.
how do you up the Stormhamers capability to compensate for the shorter range?
I gave it lascannons in the same positions as they're mounted on the other Super-Heavy tanks.
PS: The Baran Siegemasters list was originally named the Death KOrps of Krieg list up untill quite late in the design and playtesting process so it is safe to say that many of the units in the list are how Jervis originally imagined a Death Korps o Krieg army should be. -Of course that's not the same as saying that our version cannot be different.
Since the Barrans seem very different from the unveiling Kriegsmen, I view it as a very good thing that the list's name was changed.
PS: I was thinking of your Krieg army earlier today Warmaster. 
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J0k3r
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:56 pm |
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Great work E&C. Amazing how quickly a late night thought can get out of hand 
Im liking the look of the list, particularly the stat lines for the infantry and medusa. Given the medusas short range it makes complete sense to have them as the only mobile arty. Terrifying thought that lumbering towards you!
Im unconvinced about having unlimited access to chimera inf, there doesnt sem to be enough benefit to taking slow gorgons over chimeras at the mo, maybe thats just me...
However, having the option of stormtroopers in faster chimeras feels very appropriate.
BTW- Ive also been thinking along the lines of ordinatus Kreig
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:35 pm |
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Im liking the look of the list, particularly the stat lines for the infantry and medusa. Given the medusas short range it makes complete sense to have them as the only mobile arty. Terrifying thought that lumbering towards you!
I know! Even a single Medusa attached to an Infantry Company will be something to fear!
Im unconvinced about having unlimited access to chimera inf, there doesnt sem to be enough benefit to taking slow gorgons over chimeras at the mo, maybe thats just me...
I think that Gorgons are quantatatively superior to Chimerae under most circumstances... a half-dozen AT hits will cripple a Chimera-based Company, wiping most of it out, while a Gorgon-borne company (statistically speaking) won't even lose a single Gorgon, they'll just keep on moving.
So Chimeras are twice as fast, but are far, far more vulnerable.
I think the two formations will work best advancing in tandem, the Chimerae scuttling ahead and taking up defensive positions, while the Gorgons then move up through the Chimera-Company's location towards the Engagement in the next turn.
BTW- Ive also been thinking along the lines of ordinatus Kreig
I'll be putting some thought to it this evening... I'd prefer it if a Krieg list could avoid requiring too many OOP / Custom models, but an Ordinatus Krieg mega-cannon could deserve a place in the list.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:44 pm |
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I would name the heavy bolters in the infantry twinlnked heavy stubbers They have the same stats but the heavy stubbers rae some sort auf the signature weapon of the DeathKoprs
And i would drop Ogryns and Snipers as in 40k the DeathKorps have them not.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:45 pm |
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Ah yes, I did intend to change that over but forgot, cheers for reminding me BL.
EDIT:
Anyone know any good stat sets for a Capitol Imperialis?
It's kind of a Mega-Gorgon so I thought it'd fit as the Supreme Commander choice.
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:49 pm |
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And a Heavy Flamer is the same as a skorcha = 15cm AP4+ not AP5+
I like the changes on the Vulure
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:54 pm |
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And a Heavy Flamer is the same as a skorcha = 15cm AP4+ not AP5+
No problemo, must have pulled that stat from a misprint.
I like the changes on the Vulure
Just going with the armament on the ForgeWorld model... though upon rereading what I wrote, I'm not quite sure what a 'Rock Pod' is. I guess that's what they use to play the heavy metal version of 'Ride of the Valkyries' from. 
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Assassin
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:20 pm |
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Hi guys, this list looks great so far. Much better than the Baran list.
With regard to the Krieg Ordinatus, there are some excellent model kits available by Dragon. They do the WW2 german tracked super heavy howitzers in 1/144th scale. I think there were 6 built during the war, and they were all named after the Nordic mythological gods, Thor, Loki etc. I have some myself (not built yet unfortunately), and I think they would fit perfectly scale wise, with only a small amount of converting required. They also do the Leopold railway gun in the same scale, but as noted already how do you fit in a railway mounted gun into the rules/list?. I think there are some pictures on the Dragon website?.
Another note, I do like the idea of Rough Rider companies, I am crazy enough to build a Krieg RR regiment , but thats just my 2cents
Anyway's really like the list so far, and hopefuly i can contribute more when I get back, going on holiday to Finland tomorrow
Assassin
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:42 pm |
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Some more things:
Your commisar has Commander, shouldnt it have Inspiring?
And i would really drop the MechInfComp. This would make the DKoK better than the SteelLegion.
Chimaeras should only be available for Grenadiers and the RegHQ. But the InfComp should always have the option to be mounted in Gorgons.
One thing more to consider:
As the DKoK Infantery has no AT-capability i would drop its FF to 6+. This would emphasis CC and add more to the feeling of trenches-storming WWI soldiers
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:56 pm |
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Your commisar has Commander, shouldnt it have Inspiring?
My mistake.
And i would really drop the MechInfComp. This would make the DKoK better than the SteelLegion.
Chimaeras should only be available for Grenadiers and the RegHQ. But the InfComp should always have the option to be mounted in Gorgons.
Krieg armies definitely have Armoured Fist detachments, and unlike the Steel Legion they use highly-trained troops instead of Conscripts (They do a lot more expeditionary warfare too, wheras the Steel Legion are normally somewhat busy fighting on their homeworld to go galavanting around the galaxy). There is cause to believe that their troops don't have quite as many Chimerae however.
How about deleting the 20-unit Chimera-borne Company, and replacing it with a 10-unit Chimera-borne Support Formation?
That way the main formations will be Gorgon-carried, with smaller Armoured Fist backup, or alternatively more elite Grenedier backup.
At the moment I havn't got a standard SupremeHQ in the list... I was thinking of having the Capitol Imperialis as the only way to get at that re-roll.
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J0k3r
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:03 pm |
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[quote="Evil and Chaos,Oct. 03 2006,17:56"]
How about deleting the 20-unit Chimera-borne Company, and replacing it with a 10-unit Chimera-borne Support Formation?
That way the main formations will be Gorgon-carried, with smaller Armoured Fist backup, or alternatively more elite Grenedier backup.
I think this is by far the most elegant solution! Keeps the focus on foot sloggers and gorgon troops, while still allowing for rapid deployment infantry.
At the moment I havn't got a standard SupremeHQ in the list... I was thinking of having the Capitol Imperialis as the only way to get at that re-roll.
Or you could make it an infantry company upgrade to keep the focus on SH transports...
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BlackLegion
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:05 pm |
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How about deleting the 20-unit Chimera-borne Company, and replacing it with a 10-unit Chimera-borne Support Formation?
That way the main formations will be Gorgon-carried, with smaller Armoured Fist backup, or alternatively more elite Grenedier backup.
Thats sounds very good
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:05 pm |
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Or you could make it an infantry company upgrade to keep the focus on SH transports...
Oh it would certainly be a SH transport.
But as a Supreme Commander I think it's appropriate to buy it seperately.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Death Korps of Kreig Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:18 pm |
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I ready have Gorgon Mk.2s & 3s with my DoK. ?I understand the fluff, but I think Gorgons make good DoK APCs. And I'd like to see the F/W Gorgon in Epic scale ... but who knows ?
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