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SiegeMasters Review
nealhunt
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:31 pm 
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siege lines are long term affairs with big bunkers and stuff dug to guard strategic objectives - don't see why missile sissilos wouldn't be amoung them.


Silos would be a strategic objective in and of themselves.  I think it would be dangerous to put them near the lines unnecessarily.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:24 pm 
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Then you hit the original DS point of why are they on the battlefield at all? :) Indeed you could say the only way siege armies get such support is if those assets are threatened directly.

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Dingodv
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:22 am 
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As a grunt I wouldn't like to have a warhead of unknown type (lets face it as the extra warhead rules show there are many types of missile) to go off too close to my lines.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:33 pm 
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As a former Air Assault/Mech Grunt, I don't see why a D/S TEL could not be just heavily entrenched, and not neccesarily need to be in Silos. But both options would be good, IMO. BTW anything that big, close to the front would make a "tasty" target ... :D  Also I know the fluff, but be careful that the S-A/DoK only can be used on the defensive ! :;):

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:34 pm 
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As a grunt you would fight for reassignment to a rear echelon formation or maybe regular guard.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:50 pm 
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Or maybe the Navy !! :;): :laugh:  Or Peace Corps (or Korps) ! :laugh: :p :D

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GeneralNg
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:13 am 
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Being another Siegemaster player, I do think the siege infantry were a bit cheap but 50 points is too much and I agree with a previous poster's suggestion of just a 25 point increase to 150 points.

Other than that, they look ok but I don't know about the need to have 'missile silos'.

To be honest, though, my siege army isn't much good for anything but sitting in its trenches (I only have a total of 4 companies, including the HQ) and a few other bits and bobs.  Heck, I don't even take more than one battery of artillery.  I prefer to add in Thudd Guns and Rapiers since I find them more fun to use and more 'flavourful'.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 am 
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Well after an entertaining game I have a few more thoughts. These are less core mind you than the changes at the start.

New Special rule
All non War Engine Siegemaster units may always garrisson. In essence a boost to hellhounds. Needs 1. below thopugh to stop Griffons getting too good.

1 - Drop griffons, they ain't very siegey to be honest. If possible replace with infantry mortars, same gun, infantry stats, same cost.

2 - Tempted to simply axe the emplacements from the batteries all together make them a company only thing.

3 - Would also be tempted to make those deathstrikes more siegy too. thinking making them zero move one shot lv's in an emplacement. Imagine a scaffold style affair!

Of course some of this is just my wish list.

In fact I'm thinking of making the army two lists. the offical one with the point adjustments. Then the alternate houserules one which switches the griffons, deathstrikes and hellhounds for older models.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:47 pm 
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If the emplacements were dropped couldn't the batteries just be put in the emplacements bought for an infantry company.
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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 12 Jan. 2006 (15:50))
Or Peace Corps (or Korps) ! :laugh: :p :D

I am half way through a monster re-watching of Babylon5 having finally picked up the DVD box sets. The term Peace Corps still sets me on edge!!
:alien:
Cheers

James

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:13 pm 
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Yes they could. And indeed would be tougher for it (6 strong formation). However the emplacements tend to be witht he objectives and not many stick their rt there :)

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yme-loc
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:23 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 13 Jan. 2006 (02:15))
Well after an entertaining game I have a few more thoughts. These are less core mind you than the changes at the start.

New Special rule
All non War Engine Siegemaster units may always garrisson. In essence a boost to hellhounds. Needs 1. below thopugh to stop Griffons getting too good.

1 - Drop griffons, they ain't very siegey to be honest. If possible replace with infantry mortars, same gun, infantry stats, same cost.

2 - Tempted to simply axe the emplacements from the batteries all together make them a company only thing.

3 - Would also be tempted to make those deathstrikes more siegy too. thinking making them zero move one shot lv's in an emplacement. Imagine a scaffold style affair!

Of course some of this is just my wish list.

In fact I'm thinking of making the army two lists. the offical one with the point adjustments. Then the alternate houserules one which switches the griffons, deathstrikes and hellhounds for older models.

I still think that all thats really required to give a balanced siegemasters list is the following:

infantry company 150pts
command infantry company 200pts
artillery battery 175pts
rough riders 175pts

As boring as that may be.

These reviews are supposed to be about getting the lists as they stand to a position of balance with as few changes as possible.

Anything else is likely to cause more playtest problems down the line.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:37 pm 
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Hence having two lists - the serious one and chris's fun one he uses himself :)

After trying more expensive batteries it doesn't work that well. The problem all siegemaster stuff has is two fold, one its rubbish and two its very vulnerable to air. The rt for instance - if entrenched its -1 to hit (which is big I admit) but its still an LV with 5+ save and no assualt capability to speak of (not to mention the auto destruction if broken near the enemy). But hey, that might work, only had one serious game so far trying it out.

Re your infantry changes. It is a bigger proportional cost of infantry at a 2000 point game than a 5000 point game as the HQ is complsory. Remmber also you need 2 fortifications up to about 3-3500 before needing another, again a disproportionate problem for smaller armies.

My assessment of the army is that its too many activations and units and this gets worse the bigger the army gets.

The idea with the infantry taking the brunt of any increases is they are the building block of the force, they increase in number as the army grows. Hence I think they are the key to balancing in armies up to 5000 points.

All the other stuff like alternate hellhounds, deathstrikes, mortars etc is just my 'ideal' force and wouldn't enter into an official recomendations.

Just an article for SG/incoming/warp rift or whatever :)

So Yme how have your battles with the army gone?

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yme-loc
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:48 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 14 Jan. 2006 (14:37))
So Yme how have your battles with the army gone?

Mostly I have played against it not with it, although I have used it once or twice.

I will have to bow to your superior knowledge of the list at higher points values, I have only faced it in the 2700 - 3000 pts range.

Generally I agree with all your comments, as a list it tends to have too many activations, also the base infantry cost is too cheap as well as in my opinion the artillery battery, other formations may be a little cheap but not to a degree that really needs adjusting.

I have tended to lose with Biel-Tan eldar (and ork horde)against the list more often than I win.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: SiegeMasters Review
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:32 pm 
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Well I taken everything on board, got some associates to test stuff out and am writing up. In general 225 for SC, 175 for infantry, little change to other formations, am also doing 'directors cut' list for an article. Incidentally far from my model supplies I may need so images help!

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