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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:58 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

If given the option, I would like see a few versions of the Sentinel - 1 for longer range tank hunting (lascannon), 1 with heavy bolter (more infantry type work), 1 with the multi melta for a MW effect, and one support Sentinel with a BP (that's the way I think support type units should operate). ?Stats should be pretty easy - all the weapons already exist - your just mounting them on a Sentinel chassis. ?I created stats for them all if you want them for my initial stab at a list many months back. Please do post what you?ve done. I?m a firm believer in leveraging something that already exists. They have multiple versions of the Vulture and Valkyrie in IA3 - specifically for these various reasons, so you can arm them for how you need them. ?I view Sentinels being the same thing (and the fact that the Elysians rely on them so much, look at a standard guard TO&E versus the Elysian TO&E). ?I would envision this army being equipped for very specific missions ?- i.e. they have to drop in and take a bridge against orks - so they would be retrofitting their weapons platforms for what they expect to be fighting. ?Just my thought - but the fact that you're not going to have any armor or any other nice toys that some other armies have - you have to rely on three different elements - Sentinels, Skimmers, and Aircraft to provide what other armies get from all their Titans, Tanks, and other goodies.

I agree and I will work to put these (Sentinel) variations in. I?m not sure I?ll put all of them in the next release, but they will be put high in the queue.



It's very similiar to the modern armies Ranger/Heliborne warriors - Kiowa helicopters for scouting light armed missions, Apaches for tank hunting, and Blackhawks for troop transport - with the addition of being able to call in A-10 air support when needed.

I'm also in agreement on the way this should play - very mobile, but relatively soft units - they should have to rely on their mobility and relatively elite nature of the troops to be successfull.


So far, that is how I am seeing them play. They hit hard (which you would expect), but are extremely dependant on getting to terrain quickly because they are so fragile.



One other thing I thought about - and looking at the TO&E for the Elysians, what about a 0-1 Storm Trooper Company versus treating them as a support formation? ?Looking again at the IA TO&E - they have a couple companies of Storm Troopers in the core organization - they seem to utilize them more as a core unit rather than how most IG armies use them in more of a support role? ?Any thoughts? ?I don't feel that strongly one way or another, but it does give you more company options than just drop infantry?


Storm troopers are a company, unlike in the Steel Legion list. This allows you to take them as independent units so that they can represent the ?strike? arm of the Elysians as portrayed in the fluff. So what you are asking for is already in the list. I think this will be clearer after I get the list into one a more reader friendly format.


Sentinel wise I would stick to the different models availible - so that is I think 3 types? Assault cannon, multilaser and lascannon?



Although I understand the simplicity of this approach, not all of those versions are what the Elysians use. The fluff clearly states that the Elysians do not use their Sentinels the same way as other IG forces. The do not scout (nor will these versions) and are used to support the dropped troops. That is what I will be attempting to simulate, their support role.



I guess if I were limited to only three Sentinels - I would go for the three actually used in IA3 by the Elysians - Heavy Bolter, Multi Melta, and a support version (I like the idea of rocket pods personally).

But not everyone can convert sentinels that easily


I don?t think we need a bazillion versions of the Sentinels, but I do plan on featuring a Heavy Bolter version, a Multi-melta version, and a missile pod version (will place 1 BM).

As far as conversions go, there isn?t a need for that. Different colored weapons or camo could take care of that. I will most likely do some conversions as that?s how I?m wired.



Looking at the TO&E in IA3 again, and comparing to the Steel Legion basic IG list - a few things I've noticed.

The basic building blocks of all IG lists is the company. ?In Steel Legion lists - you've got infantry, mech inf, tank company etc. ?Looking at the basic building blocks of the IA3 stuff - it appears that Elysians use three types of companies as building blocks - Drop Troop companies, Storm Trooper companies, and Drop Sentinel companies. ?

Now that being said, a Storm Trooper platoon as a support option numbers 8 stands - which is what we are using as a basic number of stands to equal a company. ?If we did make Storm Troopers and Drop Sentinels both 8 stands - and make them company building blocks - it would be closer to the IA3 TO&E and line up with how the building blocks for IG armies seem to be company sized elements.

Now that being said - I think I actually prefer having them as support units (both Storm Troopers and Sentinels) - but since we are using the IA3 book as our building block, and referencing what seems to be the standard Epic building block (the Steel Legion list) - I thought I would throw these out for the group to discuss.


At this scale, although I?m not against Sentinel companies, I would be afraid that the unintended consequence of that action would be to allow someone to take all Sentinels, which I am not in favor of. So for the time being, I think I?ll leave them as they are, which is supporting assets.



Another option - that'll I just throw on the table - what about a Drop Sentinel company of 8 stands, and a support option of only 4 stands? ?


I think we should hold onto this idea for the time being and then come back to it. What I?d like to do from a development perspective is:

1. Put the infantry in and start the discussion on the FW Epic aircraft stats. The Lighting stats are fairly brutal as they stand and even at the costs I have put them at, I?m not sure that?s going to fly (pun intended).
2. The V2 list will have the three Sentinel versions I listed above in
3. Demo Charges: I expect a fair amount of discussion regarding these, so plan on a V2 for review, but the play test version will be V2.1. Now that doesn?t mean that we won?t play with 2.0, but I?d like to hammer out the demos in a quick, focused manner, then jump into testing.



I'd really like to see Honda's complete list - so I can get a feel for what lies where in the list at this point, and I also want to go back and take a peak at IA3 again to see what other elements we might be able to fit in as upgrades or support units.


By all means, let?s develop a list.




*The standard troops were also ok. ?I will leave it to the group discussion but they seemed more expensive then they should be. In that series of firefights they initially did very well, but they can't stand up to 4+ attacks. Absent some sort of heavy weapon or the above notations, they did not appear to be as viable an independent formation. Mayhaps with some upgrades. ?Else I could have just stood off and put fire into them (curse the aforementioned snipers of course). Having said that the tactic of encircling your foe's formation with, what was it 33 UNITS is a real eye opener ?:8


The cost of the units is a concern of mine as well. Points cost is something that I am keenly aware of because if the Drop troop companies are too cheap, then someone might blanket the table with teleport troops and cheap activations. Too expensive, and you?ll land, do stuff, then wonder where everybody went by the end of Turn 1.

My gut feel is that the Drop Troop companies are a tad too high and that 200 points might be a better fit, but I think it will take some more testing before I take a move in that direction. They originally started out at 180 and some of the early opinions were that was too cheap.

My preference is to start a little high and then ratchet down vs. the opposite.

Obviously, we?ll be talking about that.