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Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development

 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:58 am 
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This weeknd, on Saturday, I will be bringing my Epic Elysian Army and have already hooked up a 3000 point game against Dan's Black Legion Chaos army, and hope to face some other peoples armies as well. I will bring my Titanicus incase no-one else want to test my list.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:58 pm 
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I worked out a new list for testing the army. It only has 12 formations.

3000 point Elysian drop list – test list 2.
core
325 points – Regimental Command Company – Supreme Commander, 7 drop troopers, Hardened Veterans, Sabre, Spotter, Commissar, Fire Support troops
350 points – Drop Company – Commander, 11 Drop Troopers, 2 Hardened Veteran units, Spotter, Sabre, Commissar
225 points – Drop Company – Commander, 7 Drop Troopers, Spotter, Commissar
225 points – Drop Company – Commander, 7 Drop Troopers, Spotter, Commissar
225 points – Mortar Company – Commander, 3 Drop Troopers, 4 Mortar Sections, Sabre, Commissar
spt
300 points – Grey Ghost Company – 8 Grey Ghost units
300 points – Storm Trooper Company – Commander, 7 Storm trooper units, Commissar
300 points – Vulture Squadron – 4 Vulture Gunships
allied
150 points – Lightning Strike Squadron – 2 Lightning Strike Fighters
150 points – Lightning Squadron – 2 Lightning Fighters
150 points – Space Ship – 1 Luna Class Cruiser
300 points – Iron Breaker Platoon – 6 allied Guard units, 3 Leman Russ Conqueror Tanks, 3 Chimera


A lot more Spotters to call in MW artuillery fire (hopefully some can get chance to call in arty fire before getting blown away this time). The BTS if the Drop Coy with the extra toopers, so the Supreme Commander does not get targeted first. Maybe he will be shot at 2nd.

The Line breaker Squadron will make the list harder to break. 3 Chimeras transporting 6 infantyr with longer ranged weapons, 3 Leman Russ Conquerors with 4+RA to last a bit longer. It will also protect the Blitz. Maybe sit of to the side and behind cover until needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:01 am 
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Still trying to get test games in for the list. Covid had put the brake n it a little, however people moving onto other gaming systems like Adeptus Titanicus, Battlefleet Gothic, and many others has reduced the amount of games I can get.

I have been only able to get games of Battletech and a modified version of 9th ed 40K within the last few months. I have built a nice test list that I hope might get tested if people have the time.

It has less formations, however they are larger, have more spotters, and a nice ion breaker squadron to provide defence in the rear.

3000 point Elysian drop list – test list 2.
Core Formations – 1350 points
325 points – Regimental Command Company – Supreme Commander, 7 drop troopers, Hardened Veterans, Sabre, Spotter, Commissar, Fire Support troops
350 points – Drop Company – Commander, 11 Drop Troopers, 2 Hardened Veteran units, Spotter, Sabre, Commissar [BTS]
225 points – Drop Company – Commander, 7 Drop Troopers, Spotter, Commissar
225 points – Drop Company – Commander, 7 Drop Troopers, Spotter, Commissar
225 points – Mortar Company – Commander, 3 Drop Troopers, 4 Mortar Sections, Sabre, Commissar
Support Formations – 900 points
300 points – Grey Ghost Company – 8 Grey Ghost units
300 points – Storm Trooper Company – Commander, 7 Storm trooper units, Commissar
300 points – Vulture Squadron – 4 Vulture Gunships
Allies and Ships – 750 points
150 points – Lightning Strike Squadron – 2 Lightning Strike Fighters
150 points – Lightning Squadron – 2 Lightning Fighters
150 points – Space Ship – 1 Luna Class Cruiser
300 points – Iron Breaker Platoon – 6 allied Guard units, 3 Leman Russ Conqueror Tanks, 3 Chimera

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:00 pm 
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Took a look at the PDFs. I was a bit confused at first by the design notes and special rules, which seem more complicated than they need to be. If I understand correctly, you just want formations to be able to be deployed either via SELF planetfall, or deployed normally with transport skimmers. To do this, you have a section in the (non-normative) Design Notes describing grav chutes and valkyries, and an army-specific special unit ability called "drop troops", which then itself references 'grav chutes' and 'planet fall'.

Firstly the result of using planetfall is that you need a spaceship in order for the 'core of the army' (as you describe it) to deploy, which I don't believe is what you intended. You also need to read several sections in order to understand what it means. I would simplify this by just adding the existing standard "Self-planetfall" rule to the unit profile of all relevant units (i.e. most things excluding the skimmers). A custom 'Drop Troops' rule is not needed. It's clear that if you add units to a formation that cannot self-planetfall (i.e. valkyries), the formation loses this ability, I don't think you need a special rule just to explain this. However if you wanted to make it clearer that these are two completely different deployment options representing the 'core' vs 'reactionary force', you could add a simple reminder in the army list.

Incidentally, you're not actually placing any army composition restrictions to ensure that "the core of the army is deployed via grav chutes" as the design notes put it; if you wanted to do that, you could just split the army list into 'drop' and 'reactionary force' sections: one without transports, one with. This would make it even clearer.

Buying the skimmers as upgrades means the formation loses the ability to self-planetfall so I understand why this upgrade is not the same price compared to e.g. Steel Legion valkyries. Can't really comment on whether the price is internally balanced or not, but for an army like this where multiple formations are expected to drop, self-planetfall is radically different to and a lot more powerful than planetfall (and in some ways teleport), because you can choose exactly when to move them onto the board, with no BMs, and no risk to the formation before you activate them - they will always get to do something. I think probably this is worth a fair amount to give up, justifying a reduced price for swapping for valks, but bear in mind that if you price the upgrade the same across formations then you need to ensure that the varying worth of self-planetfall is baked into the base formation itself: by that I mean, it's going to be a more reliable ability for mortars and veterans than it is for the core drop troops, purely because drop troops have more limited range.

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Last edited by Kyrt on Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:55 am 
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Yes you do need a spaceship, which is why one is included in the list. If you know planetfall then you should know this already. So I did not specifically say you must include a spaceship to include drop troops with the planetfall ability.

I thought I had made it clear. The planetfall ability has been introduced because selfplanetfall was s nightmare and the troops wo dropped down were shot to bits peicemeal in the test games. Secondly because mass teleport was deemed OP, and the list would not get approved for tournament play without its removal.

I have a good array of moderately inexpensive troops who cha be deployed as reserves via planetfall, be deplayed on the table, or take valkyries and be set up the tble as a mobile back up to the troops who are deployed enmasse.

You have the regimental HQ, drop companys which can be tailored to be - Pure Assault (Cyclops and hardened veterans) - Defence Support (spotters heavy weapons and Sabres) - a mix of the 2 or just there for larger formations with the 4 extra drop troopers. Note I have limited upgrades to 4 so ypu do not have a massive expensive formation with every option. There is also a mortar company 1 per 1000 points, and a plethora of support formations to fill the army out with cheap-ass easily killed initiative sinks, or useful slightly more expensive formations to provide hard hitting tank killing role.

The allies include the spaceship (mandatory for Planetfall) - though I had teased with the idea of the Blitz being a non destroyable artillery spotting C3 bunker that replace the Spaceship and alows for 2 large artillery MW barrages to account for the loss of the Pin Point attack.

I have some very nice deployable formations that are themed to the list - Grey Ghosts, Taurus/TaurusVenators, Vultures, Scout Sentinels, Armoured and Support Sentinels and Storm Troopers - the only foation you can teleport in with (as the list still needs some last minute teleport option to deny an objective.

I think everything is straight forward.

To planetfall, simply place a model from the formation within 15cm of the PS co-ordinates, roll for scatter, place model (using planetfall rules) then place the rest of the formation within 5cm of another model from the formation until all ar deplaioyed. Move to the next formation in the army that is arriving this turn and redo the scatter, etc until all formations have been deployed, delayed for a turn destrouyed as they landed off board and so on. Since the spaceship takes up one activation, then you have another chance to activate a formation and then pass the turn over to your opponent.

The game then procedes as normal from that point on. It means you have a one hit wonder hammer strike by your assault dropped forces spread across the board. You hope enough of them survive to kick the enmy off the objectives, survive and hold on until some ouf your follow up forces can reinforce them.

The army is fragile, with some fast vehicles and light vehicles lots of troops who hopefully can use the terrain to survive, and you hit hard with outnumbering forces, and gradually they get reduced down in numbers as the enemy reacts and brings their forces up to push you off what you have taken. You have the Leman Russ Conquerors, chimeras and allied guard to either hold your blitz or rush up and hurt the enmy trying to bust up your plans.


It is not meant to be an easy army, but it it is meant to be fun, and to keep your opponent guessing where you are going to drop all those troops.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:01 pm 
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Ok well I do know how planetfall works, but I really don’t think it is made clear that a regular planetfall is what you are intending, first of all the first post with the list actually says it uses self planetfall.

Second the design notes describe explicitly how they are dropped, not from space, implying no spaceship is involved (since why would you need one when deployed by their own transports). You even have a special rule, not that it’s particularly clear.

Third I don’t see why “coming down piecemeal” makes them more susceptible to being shot up, it makes them better. Having everything come down at the start of the turn but only ever able to activate one of them (on a 3+, at that, with no deathwind to prep either) is what leaves all your formations exposed to be shot up, not the other way round. Whereas with self planetfall, if you need mutually supporting formations then you can land one, position for support and lay the crucial blast marker, land the second and engage. It makes no sense to me to remove self planetfall and replace it with planetfall on the basis that they get shot up otherwise. The desire to “keep your opponent guessing” is exactly what planetfall lacks compared to self planetfall, the former reveals the positions of all drop formations all at once, self planetfall retains secrecy right until they are activated. If anything, having so much self planetfall is too good, and in some ways is almost as good as teleport especially for a 2+ initiative army.

If you really do mean planetfall then I am not sure your transports are costed correctly. By pricing the upgrades so cheaply you are disincentivising the very deployment method that you are supposedly positioning as the “core” of the army. Plays more like air cavalry (vanaheim list) than paratroopers.

Lastly, what’s with the petty comments about how rubbish the army is? Including in the list itself, it’s just a bit weird. Approval relates to it being balanced, not underpowered.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:17 am 
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It is not necessarily an underpowered army. Is is a drop strike army. The use of self planetfall has been tested against Titans, Gargants, Chaos Marines, Black Templars and Imperial Guard. In all cases the self planetfalling forces were shot up and either destroyed or broken.

They did not last long enough to get to cover in some cases, and in some, they were blown out of the cover my BP6 MW attack. The list does not have Deathstrikes, because they are not thematic to the list. The ist allows for a large amount of MW artillery from either the spotter characters, or the mortar company. They have the vultures for anti-tank and the ablity to increase the company sizes to make them a little more durable. They unfortunately have only range 30cm plasma cannons in every second squad rather than autocannons.

That is the thing. Each list has a few weaknesses, and you have to get a few bonuses to counter these. The changes introduced by myself are the spotters, the Grey Ghosts to help hold objectives and get a bit more from the cover for the dedicated Garrisons. The Storm troopers are now cheaper and you can teleport them in to assist defendig home objectives, force enemy off their own Blitz, or dent it to them at the last minute. I find the odd blast marker from teleporters does not always make them useless.

The list ignores the -1 for having enemy within 30cm, so better chance of them rallying. Their Initiative is 2+, not 3+, however their strategy ratring is 3+ like most Guard armies.

The Elysians share a lack of heavy long ranged hard hitting powerful weapons such as Volcano cannons, Quake cannons, Death Strike Missile Launchers, and soon. They share this with lists like Ork Speedfreaks, Dark Eldar (until recently where they got their own titan), Sian-Hann Eldar, and many more fast assault armies.

These armies all seem to be classified as glass hammers. They need a special way of deploying them, and they also need a small force of reserves that can be mobile enough to come up from the rear to support. Hence the support forces like the taurus, the Vultures, the array of sentinels, and the companies that are given vlakyries to alter them to cavalry suport role.

I do not have the list or want to deliberately bui;d weaknesses into it. It has be a struggle to get the small concessions into the list like support sentinels, Spotters, Sabres, dedicated close combat troops like the hardened veterans. I have been slowly reducing the cost of the infantry and the transport, and so on to make the list more balanced, however many are also commenting that the costs are starting to get a little too low.

A list developer can make all those who want to play the list upset, either the list is too weak, or the list is getting too powerful. I have to find the best balance where I know it will perforn reasonably well against the bulk of the armies it faces. Most times it is Rock/Paper/Scissors, and even then the dice gods will play jokes on you.

I will look at the wording in the list and try to make it easier to understand, for those involved that the list is a drop list which uses planetfall. That the drop companies can be set up on the table or dropped in, and can even take valkyrie transports to alter them to air cav if desired.

Recently I dropped the cost of the Grey Ghosts as I felt that 50 points each was a bit too much, so I added 2 more to their company. Their cost may even drop a little more in a future list. The infantry are now a little under 22 points each, yes it is more than in some other lists. But they do not drop in right on the enemy, and then attack them enmasse.

The Death Korp of Kreig had their Gorgons Crit damaged altered to kill off D6 transported troopers to make them less OP. This list will develop, and change as I try to find the sweet spot where the prices are ideal. Remember I am trying to also stop the list from being able to field more than 16 formations, as this is considered a popcorn list and they are considered unpopular by those who decide if the list is approved.

It might make no sense to remove self planetfall to you, however getting my butt kicked in every test battle I played while testing self planetfall. altering my tactics even allowing for biast dice rolls, and enemy with more BP6 MW attacks to bring down a pair of reaver titans. My army list was altered time and again to make it more durable, however the problem remained because the self planetfall was the problem. The feedback from my opponents was that I should change to planetfall. and have more troops on the ground so atleast some of them will be able to put some hurt on the enmy defenders. The more recent test games have shown some promise after changing over to planetfall. Yes many still get shot up, however a lot still were able to get in there and do their jobs.

I will also check the cost of the transports. although I will not make them too cheap. I have already dropped their cost considerably already.

On the last point - not petty comments. I am being realistic. This is a glass hammer list, designed to drop right on top of the enemy, and try to overwhelm them. (thing the 82nd and 101st airborne divisions on D-Day) . A lot of casualties, however they did achieve their task and help slow down enemy reinforcements.

I have to use the basic original elysian list made by GW back long ago, which had been slowly changed and improved upon bit by bit, with out losing the original theme and idea for the list.

The 3.x list was fairly decent, however it had way too much teleport. This list now has a decent way to deploy the troops, and they are not shot up as soon as each pair of formations is dropped down.

Planetfall allows me to get between 3 and 4 formations down close enough to a commander to order a combined assault from 3 companies, (this is following the artillery strike and pin point attack that replaces death strikes, so the enemy should have some blast markers on them, and might even be broken. I have found that that is far more decisive than sending in 2 formations which normally have to face enemy overwatch fire. Once they take the objective, thy need cover and mutual support. 1 or 2 weak and possibly broken formations can not do this.

Give the list a chance. Remember this is a list being play tested to balance it out and make it durable but not OP.

I really think the list is starting to blossom.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:19 pm 
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I'm saying the transports seem v cheap to me, since planetfall is not a great deployment method, spending 75 points to convert them into air cav seems definitely worth it; as is I can't see myself planetfalling them.

Fair enough if you're relying on commander to planetfall several formations together before the enemy activates, that is the one advantage planetfall has compared to self-planetfall, in every other way self is better (which includes an alternative mechanic to achieve the same thing: activating two activations in a row so you can prep and support). Planetfall limits you to one single drop per game, you'll only get one chance to activate something before your opponent can retaliate, which is on a 3+ retain, which just doesn't seem like what you are aiming for. If combined assault of several drop infantry formations placed intermingled is how you intend to use them why not just make them bigger in the first place and let them self-planetfall?

Planetfall vs self-planetfall is certainly a debate, to some extent you have to just choose, my issue is just the logic you're using to choose one over the other which seems to be the opposite of reality. Some of the things you're saying about self planetfall just don't make sense, or rather they are even more true for planetfall. The only way for a self-planetfalling formation to be shot up before it does something is with overwatch - that's the point of self-planetfall, they don't have to be on the table taking fire until they activate. Whereas a planetfalling formation can be shot up before it activates (in fact if you drop 3 activations, it's very likely only 1 get a chance to before being broken). So ditching self-planetfall for planetfall doesn't help with this. Hell, you could even give them both I suppose.

If you can't get them into cover, increase their range. It seems like maybe the idea of having your troops already on the ground waiting to activate and THEN shot up feels to you in some way better than not having them on the board, leading to your "shot up piecemeal" comments. I can see why - it means that you only have unbroken drop formations on the table for a brief period of time (i.e. during their activation) and they're quickly broken after. But what's the point in having them on the ground for longer if it means they are less likely to be able to activate overall? Accept that lots of them will die - that's what happens when you drop unarmoured infantry into the jaws of the enemy. Some will succeed, and at least if self-planetfalling they get to take their action first. A lot fewer will die if they don't have to sit on the ground waiting through several enemy activations before they get to activate themselves.

Maybe it helps to illustrate an example:

Your activation 1: spaceship, drop 4 formations across 2 locations
Your activation 2: retain, 2 formations combined assault
Opponent activation 1: breaks an unactivated assault formation (3 unbroken remaining, 1 unactivated)
Opponent activation 2: retain, breaks an unactivated assault formation (2 unbroken remaining, 0 unactivated) [if you're lining up for combined assault you're intermingled so your opponent might not actually need two activations here, but lets assume he needs to either prep or target them with two separate activations]
Your activation 3: no drop troops left to activate, do something else
Opponent activation 3: breaks/destroys an activated assault formation (1 unbroken remaining, 0 unactivated)
Opponent activation 4: retain, breaks/destroys an activated assault formation (0 unbroken remaining, 0 unactivated)

Result: you've landed 4 formations, all 4 were broken/destroyed, you have only broken/destroyed 1 enemy formation

Self-planetfall:
Your activation 1: spaceship/vultures/aircraft attack a formation to prep (more options here because you're not forced to activate the spaceship)
Opponent activation 1: stall, nothing is down yet to target
Your activation 2: formation 1 lands, assaults and breaks prepped target
Opponent activation 2: breaks formation 1 (3 remaining off board)
Nothing else for opponent to target, ball in your court
Your activation 3: formation 2 lands, assaults and breaks target
Opponent activation 3: breaks formation 2 (1 remaining off board)
Your activation 4: formation 3 lands, preps target
Your activation 5: formation 4 lands, breaks formation
Opponent activation 4: breaks formation 3
Opponent activation 5: breaks formation 4 [though given you've broken 3 of his formations, probably not]

Result: dropped 4,you've broken/destroyed 3 enemy formations, less chance all 4 of yours are broken/destroyed. It's also more adaptable as you can choose in what order to bring multiple formations down depending on what is near to the drop zone: if it's something soft, just bring one down, if it's harder, bring down 1 to prep then the other to assault.

The reality is with planetfall there's a good chance that neither plan can be executed well just because you don't know how units are going to be positioned when you plot the drop zones, but when you're landing in the face of the enemy, coming down piecemeal is actually a good thing as it limits their chance to react and puts you in control of choosing what they are able to target and when. Coming down all together means your opponent is going to have a chance to eliminate them in order of most threatening first.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:01 am 
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I think that self planetfall has already been disqualified because it has proven to not be a viable solution since everything was being dropped and shot to pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:47 am 
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How many armies and how many opponents have you tested the Elysian army with?

I have tested many of the possible opponents. I also forgot I played a game against an ork Ghazghull horde opponent, he also smashed my elysian army as dropping 2 formations down meant they were not strong enough to face off against the ork horde formations.

Dropping 2 formations, who if you are lucky do some damage, but generally do not have the numbers to break or kill off an ememy formation, especially when they have lots of support just nearby. I got so fed up with dropping troops down out of the enmy line of sight just to hide in cover, or to manouver later next turn, or drop down to prepare for the next pair of companies to drop just to have them shot to pieces, and either killed off, broken or had enough blast marker added to make them useless to support their comerades arriving in the next activation. The next pair of formations would then not make a dent, and the enemy just made sure they put as much hurt on them as well.

The rule ignoring enemy within 30cm helped, however my dice rolls were average, and I generally failed to roll he 4+ needed to rally the depleted remains of the companies.

I was far more succesful with planetfall. More troops to worry the enemy. Do they go after those near the blitz, or the ones near the other objctives in their half and some in my half, or perhaps the mass positioned near the enemy BTS/or Supreme Commander. The Storm troopers alway helped teleporting in, and for some reason I never rolled more than a single 1 for blast markers. They helped me deny the enemy my Blitz more than once.

Using Self Planetfall most of army was destroyed, and I usually lost my BTS, a couple of my own objectives, and if lucky i might have stopped them holding one of their own secondary objectives. Using planetfall, I have even won a game or 2 against opponents who did not have enmasse MW artillery, or lots of titans.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:03 pm 
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McJakub wrote:
I think that self planetfall has already been disqualified because it has proven to not be a viable solution since everything was being dropped and shot to pieces.

Which is fine. My point is that using planetfall instead does not stop them being shot to pieces. Dropping your army in the jaws of the enemy will get them shot. Either make the formation bigger, more resilient, more able to reach cover, drop them somewhere else, or don't planetfall them at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:05 pm 
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Quote:
Either make the formation bigger


I wanted to talk about this since it seems like when i purchase a base drop company in this list I'm getting a platoon and a half, where other guard list get two platoons when ever they purchase an infy/mech company. I also found this picture, which shows a bit different organization of drop companies. Any thoughts on the image below?


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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:17 pm 
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kingzog wrote:
Quote:
Either make the formation bigger


I wanted to talk about this since it seems like when i purchase a base drop company in this list I'm getting a platoon and a half, where other guard list get two platoons when ever they purchase an infy/mech company. I also found this picture, which shows a bit different organization of drop companies. Any thoughts on the image below?


That's an interesting idea, making elysian companies larger or adding single vulture for more longe range AT fire. I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:12 pm 
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Interesting, however that would mean another company or support formation to add into the list. It would then be a dedicated air cav company not a drop company. Hard enough getting the current list approved. Also I need more people to play test the army.

The apocalypse datasheetyou have there (hard to read, but I managed to blow it upto 800%, to work it out. This looks like it is setup for 40k scale battles not epic scale.

Elysian typically travel in their valkyries and then drop nto their targets. I could see the Vulture being used as a company escort for the formation to help discourage enemy fighters while they fly high moving towards thier target (just before they drop). Rather like using DC-9s to drop paratroopers over France and having a P-51 as an escort for the DC-9s.

It looks like an apocalyple datasheet made by forgeworld back in 6th or 7th ed. Part of one of their IA books.

If you want a dedicated air cavalry list I know the Mirali Sky raiders is the list you want. Elysians are a drop list.

I can look at increasing the size of the companies, but as you see there already an option to add 4 extra squads or basic drop troopers for 75 points. There is also the option to make some of them into support air cav support companies by adding valkyrie transports, for a further points increase.

I think the current discussion has gone askew of what the Elysian list is all about. Next you will be wanting vultures with one shot deathstrike missile launchers, some form of heavy gunship (possibly a DC2 WE) skimmer that has a volcano cannon, and other changes to make the list over the top.

Elysians have a standard company size of about 40 troopers with options to increase the formation size. Their price is fairly cheap considering, and the upgrades are even cheaper. They have allies like iron fist platoons, upgrades to tailor a drop company to assault and support roles.

Vultures squadrons are part of the support forces, and copied directly from other guard lists. If I drop their price, then I break the rules set by "those who decide if a list if approved" They would have to be renamed, and even then, it might be deemed too powerful a change, which could be spammed too easily.

I am doing my best, taking in all coments from those who want the old expensive prices for the formations reintroduced, who want the sabres removed, who want many other changes to make the list almost identical to the version 3 list, but replace the teleport with something else, through to those who want everything cheaper, more support craft like vultures, with nastier weapons - basically make them an cheap costing air cav list with weapons to found in heavy armoured guard regiments, but with the speed of vultures and valkyries. I will not change this list into something OP. I intend to keep it thematic, balanced and interesting.

Try the Mirali Sky raider army out if you do not want to use this list, and just want an air cav list.

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 Post subject: Re: Elysian Drop Troop Army List V4.0 development
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:07 pm 
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Quote:
I think the current discussion has gone askew of what the Elysian list is all about. Next you will be wanting vultures with one shot deathstrike missile launchers, some form of heavy gunship (possibly a DC2 WE) skimmer that has a volcano cannon, and other changes to make the list over the top.

Hyperbole much? ::)

Quote:
Vultures squadrons are part of the support forces, and copied directly from other guard lists. If I drop their price, then I break the rules set by "those who decide if a list if approved" They would have to be renamed, and even then, it might be deemed too powerful a change, which could be spammed too easily.

I don't think we need to be rejiggering the vultures (though they form a big part of the Elysian lore and tactics) and they don't need spamming but what in the name of zombie jesus are you talking about here? Prices don't require renaming units (see White Scars Land Raiders which are a mega price drop from Codex)

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