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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
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Well the end of another heavy proxy battle, delayed somewhat by the cyclone warnings at the refugee camp (I wonder if I teach any of those guys wagames? They might however get insurrectionist). The sides used are perhaps not as varied as I would like due to the proxying ? can?t have too much to remember! Got the game whilst waiting for my connection to Dhaka.
As no-one objected in the other thread I tried out a modified ground based marine force, based on E&C?s ideas about reducing ground formations and upping air transports and my imperial fists/planetside list (attached in post below). I didn?t mix in whirlwinds this time, not least because with two proxy armies things were confusing enough already!
Forces used
Marines planetside (Imperial Fists ? more like Napoleons Fists)
Used list in this thread and attached in following post.
375 Land Raiders
100 Helios (a back to front ?raider proxy!)
075 Land Raider
350 Terminators
050 Chaplain
275 Tacticals
075 SC
025 Razorback - AP
275 Armour ? Predator Annihilator x 4
075 Hunter
075 Predator Annihilator
175 Dreadnought Detachment
075 Hunter
150 Assault marines
200 Assault marines
050 Chaplain
300 Fighter Bomber Squadron
Imperial Guard
Used 1 commissar per 450 points (giving 6 and raising the question ? clarify whether point in army or points of scenario ? obvious but worth saying)
Baneblade revised stats with TRA
500 Supreme Commander company (commissar)
050 Hydra
500 Shadowsword company (commissar)
500 Baneblade company (commissar)
400 Mech company (commissar)
050 Hydra
250 Infantry Company (commissar)
150 Hydra Battery (commissar)
250 Manticore battery
2650 (option of Ogyrns rejected as too many proxies in use!)
In essence two mechanised armies facing off!
Sorry for the poor pic, its done with my tablet laptop as no camera to hand with power.
Objective placement
Note the evil guard stuck the objectives in cover. Normally players don?t do this in my experience as it gives infantry cover and a save ? however marines already have a 4+ save and if infantry were to hold it, it would be easier for them if they could be in the woods!
I placed close to the mid point to ensure my ground based chaps shouldn?t have any problems reaching them, plus there was only one possible ?Guard garrison.
Deployment
As you can see both sides concentrated on the right flank, a mixed blessing, poor fire corridors for the shadowswords but likely a lot of firepower for supporting assaults.
Turn one
Terminators teleport in. Yes an unprepared assault on the manticores. Choice was to wait to turn two and have greater impact, go for the shadowswords early or go for the manticores and try to pull off a formation or two to deal with them. The Shadowsword deployment meant I could have got in between two and used them to shield from the third and some supporting fire, however I would still take a lot of incoming plus little chance of killing the commissar tank. So option three it was.
Marines win initiative
Terminators go for it. Win easily despite support from the Hydra, re-deploy into the woods (not big enough to put 10cm between them and the rest of the ?Guard).
?Guard ponder, then move shadowswords(!) enough to shoot at the terminators, vaping all but the chaplains entourage. I always over-extend those poor chaps. On reflection a poor move ? the shadowswords were never likely to move forward much. Terminators stay in woods but move towards main guard force to get away from Hydra.
Tacticals double up getting into an objective wood and putting fire into the ?guard infantry, removing a unit, the return fire patters off their armour.
Assault Marines bounce forward occupying the other objective
In a delaying tactic the Hydra advance forward, shooting at the Terminator survivor to no effect.
Baneblades double forward and long range fire gets a tactical unit.
Trying to make this less of a slugfest the preds march left and get behind the hill in the centre, trying to position to cause the threat of crossfires, in response the SC formation doubles across to screen that side and put some fire into the assault marines to no effect.
With one less Hydra about and the battery covering the SC I thought I?d risk a ground attack on the other mech formation, I could have done an attack on the super heavies but four thunderbolts don?t have that good AT fire. Incoming Hydra fire knocks one plane out and the remaining three eliminate two chimera and two infantry.
The mech formation fails to activate and rallies instead.
The Land Raiders march to get fully into range of the SC formation, using some woods to screen from the Shadowswords. Finally the dreadnaughts (I had forgotten about them) advance to the edge of the wood, lose the hunter to a dangerous terrain test with a re-roll for going so slow and knock a damage point off a Baneblade.
Thunderbolts exit off enemy table edge, terminators rally with the re-roll and everyone else shifts blastmarkers.
End of the turn clear the ?Guard weren?t coming forward as much as I hoped (having come forward in most cases about 30cm) and I had nothing in decent engage range (the assaults could Firefight the guard infantry though). Clearly the idea was to force a battle of firepower at ever decreasing range which I couldn?t win. On the other hand the tanks had swung over a fair bit to the left, could potentially mash up the SC, my infantry were all in cover, the ?Guard mech was stalled on the baseline but the Shadow swords remained fairly untouchable.
Turn 2
Marines win initiative (yo)
Terminators double forward and crossfire the SC, killing a Chimera. Retaining with a re-roll the Land Raiders sustain, crossfiring with the terminators and rip the SC formation to shreds, knocking all the chimera hulls and some of the infantry. Remnants run back to shelter in cover.
Shadowswords double, can?t quite get a good enough bead on the Land Raiders so instead bracket the preds, killing 2.
I attempt to active the thunderbolts for a run on the mech, but fail.
Baneblades double up into objective range (pretty much attempting to occupy all four  ) and open up on the tacs, killing three (including the SC).
Dreadnaughts advance into support range firing at the Baneblades knocking another damage point off.
Infantry set overwatch.
Assault marines engage the Baneblades, lose a man to fire from the infantry, do two points of damage (1 to the lead damaged tank, one to the commissar tank), lose two more stands to return fire, dreads blow up the most damaged lead tank and win the combat by one. SHT?s retreat behind the infantry formations cover, assaults consolidate towards infantry.
Tacs try to double and finish off the damaged tank but fail and rally.
Hydra battery scythes down the terminator stand after moving to a more central position.
In response the remnants of the preds double and break them, sending them scurrying away.
Finally the mech double, get the pred?s hunter but its not enough to break them.
Hydras fail to rally, Baneblades do so with re-roll, SC rallies, guard units rally, all marines rally.
Turn 3
Guard win initiative (boo)
Shadowswords reposition with an advance and knock out three land raiders.
Infantry with a re-roll sustain into the assault marines killing one (or maybe they failed with a re-roll, can?t remember).
Preds move and shoot up baneblades, doing nowt. Land Raiders come and help, also doing nowt (one tank could fire).
Baneblades marshal, their fire breaking the Land Raiders who mill around.
Thunderbolts smash into the mech formation, doing damage for no loss.
Mech fail to activate and blow away a pred, breaking them.
Tacticals march back to hold blitz.
Dreads move back to hold objective put some fire in the direct of the guard to little effect.
SC holds position and hopes I fail my dice roll.
Assault marines activate and bounce back to hold the other Marine objective.
Land raiders rally. Stopped at that point.
Marines ? They shall not pass, defend the flag
Guard ? Defend the flag
Conclusions ? well somewhat confusing with all the proxies. Certainly I am not improving as a marine commander ? I would assume they don?t appreciate massive losses.
Dreads were good ? but then no-one fired at them. Bigger plane formation meant could be more aggressive than usual. Both armies weren?t ideal and somewhat casually picked, both were a bit short of activations for one. Space marines just don?t seem that tough at Epic scale, certainly they can?t slug things out and assault marine deaths remain very high.
Brains a bit dead, anyone have anything illuminating to say? Certainly I need a way of taking out formations like Shadowswords, they simply gutted a formation a turn almost.
Certainly with key failed activations on the Guard side the marines were lucky, I don?t feel I deserved the win however.
Lessons learnt about list? Zero I think, I didn?t use enough of the changed formations.
Hmm, I'm having problems with the bitmap of the battle, here the army list instead.
_________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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